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  #181  
Old December 2nd, 2019, 07:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I don't think he's better then Hawkeye (150 & 160 w/a jet cycle) or Black Widow (170). Those are the types of heroes he faces and loses to, other non-powered but highly skilled humans. 150-170 seems like a fitting range.
Let me be clear...180 would be the max. My comment was more that testing at 150 he lost all three and I took that as he was under powered as 150 felt like the floor.

However him fitting in a HYDRA build is also a good goal.

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #182  
Old December 2nd, 2019, 08:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Yeah, him getting subbed into a Hydra build in place of Madam Hydra makes sense if their is a popular Hydra build people are already using with her in it. I'm not sure what the Hydra builds look like since Red Skull's price was bumped up, don't think I've played them since that happened.
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  #183  
Old December 2nd, 2019, 09:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Red Skull (250), Strucker (210), Madame H (140), and Hydra Agents x5 (400) is now a 1,000 point build. So having some alternates for that army could be fun. 160 would also make him swapable with Hydra Agents x2, which would be cool as well.
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  #184  
Old December 3rd, 2019, 01:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

I think 160 was my thinking forever ago for this reason.

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  #185  
Old December 3rd, 2019, 02:37 AM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Since I generally max my squads out at x3, the 160 direction looks better to me.
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  #186  
Old December 3rd, 2019, 11:41 AM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

I threw some mini pics in the art post.
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  #187  
Old December 3rd, 2019, 11:48 AM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Thanks, LP!
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  #188  
Old December 4th, 2019, 09:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
I threw some mini pics in the art post.
Those will be great. Thanks.

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It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #189  
Old December 4th, 2019, 10:03 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

Quote:
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Crossbones

Army Test
Map: Shiver (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (800): Crossbones (150), Red Skull (250), HYDRA Agents x2 (160), Clayface (Karlo) (240)
Team 2 (800): Star-Lord (250), Jack Flag (190), Rover (160), Kraven (200)

Spoiler Alert!

One Punch Jack.

Don’t feel like I got all too much useful info in this game. I did enjoy the 2-round Star-Lord vs. Crossbones slugfest at the end, but it was basically just a stat fight by that point.
___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Under The “El”
Units: Team 1 (900): Crossbones (150), Captain America (240), Hawkeye II (160), Huntress (170), Robin (Tim Drake) (170), Alfred (60)
Team 2 (900): Sinestro (330), Lyssa Drak (240), Sinestro Corps Soldier x3 (330)

Spoiler Alert!

Crossbones + Hawkeye + Cap is a fairly effective combo, and tossing Alfred on top theoretically just makes it even better. That theory just didn’t happen to hold up in this specific game.

I wanted to try him against some Lanterns just to explore how they felt against Brutality, and yeah, I think it needs a SS restriction.
___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Under The “El”
Units: Team 1 (800): Crossbones (150), Captain America (240), Wasp II (160), Red Skull (250)
Team 2 (800): Wrecking Crew

Spoiler Alert!

Team 1 didn’t really feel like it had the connective tissue to take on the Wrecking Crew. Maybe if Crossbones had a vantage point where he could snipe from relative safety and get the benefit of being in clear sight of Cap and Red Skull, but that didn’t really exist on this map.
___________________________________________________________

NOTE: Made the change to Brutality 4 and added SS restriction

Army Test
Map: Road Rampage (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (670): Crossbones (150), MK Scorpion (205), Hand Mystics (145), Hand Ninja x2 (170)
Team 2 (670 680): Hood (180), Whirlwind (190), Scarecrow (170), Wizard (140)

Spoiler Alert!

It’s really frustrating to see Human Shield fail when trying to use it with one of your own Squad figures. That is something I’d consider changing.

Crossbones again proved to be pretty fragile. He tried to use Ninjas as shields, but couldn’t get the roll and Hood was able to take him out with a lucky double attack from height. Still, for a Hand build he’s a natural fit
___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: A double attack of 4 for 150 points is a really solid deal. Sure, you have to jump through the OM hoop to get that out of Crossbones, but there are more than enough OM managers that work with him, so I never felt limited.

His main weakness is his fragility. He desperately wants to stay unengaged, and even then 4/4 aren’t exactly great stats for keeping him alive. I think making Human Shield more consistent would help with that a bit. I think it might be nice to have Human Shield trigger after attack dice are rolled as well, just to give you a tiny bit more of a tactical option on when to use it.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Fragility is an issue, but other than that, Crossbones is pretty rad! Trigger Man and Human Shield both bring something pretty fresh to the game, which is always cool to see. He’s a fun expansion to the Terrorist army that offers a pretty decent ranged attack option on the cheap.
Some kinda funky results, but I feel like I have enough data now. I'm not putting too much credence on Game 2's blowout loss; it was non-flying figures vs. flying figures on a map with a ton of elevation.
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  #190  
Old December 4th, 2019, 10:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

So after that, here's the changes I'm considering.
Quote:
NAME = CROSSBONES
SECRET IDENTITY = BROCK RUMLOW

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = TERRORIST
PERSONALITY = SADISTIC
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 7
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 150


TRIGGER MAN
After attacking a non-adjacent figure with Crossbones's normal attack, if you did not reveal an Order Marker on Crossbones this turn, he may attack one additional time.

BRUTALITY 4
When attacking an adjacent figure with Crossbones, if the Attack number on the defending figure's card is 4 or less and the defending figure does not have the Superstrength special power, that figure rolls 1 fewer defense die.


HUMAN SHIELD 11
Anytime Crossbones is attacked by a non-adjacent opponent's figure with a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may choose an adjacent small or medium figure without the Super Strength special power. If you do not control the chosen figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, or if you control the chosen figure, and Crossbones would receive one or more wounds from that attack, ignore one of those wounds and inflict a wound on the figure chosen for Human Shield.
The Brutality change is the one I suggested earlier.

Switched up Human Shield a little bit. I found it really frustrating to have this power set up perfectly, with one of my own squad figures adjacent to Brock, only to have the power not work because of a D20 flub. I tried to use it twice in my games, and it failed both times. Hoping this new version isn't too much of a course correction in the opposite direction, but I really feel like choosing your own figure should always work, similar to Lex II or Madame Hydra.
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  #191  
Old December 4th, 2019, 10:53 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

I'm okay with it being more of an automatic thing for human shield, it's why I mentioned lowering the roll when you said he wasn't winning any matches at 150. It should be a key note power of his. The fact you only used it twice in 4 games is a little concerning. I know you only ran him with squads once and heroes are harder to keep adj. to each other, but someone like Bane should be a natural ally for him. Boosts his stats by 1 and has 6 life to soak up some wounds. At that point I might just target Bane though instead of Crossbones, but that's still buying him more time to use his double attack. I'm just not 100% sure how I feel about him auto grabbing someone like Cap to use for a human shield. Squads I can see automatically getting used as pawns, but I have to think about how to deal with his hero allies.
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  #192  
Old December 4th, 2019, 10:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Crossbones (Initial Playtesting)

I'd like a small failure rate for Human Shield still, even if it's just 1 or 2. People should be able to wriggle out of it - he's just strong arming, he's no Lex. And I still have some pretty strong objections to "4 attack or less" and "no Super Strength" - it's just a messy, inelegant power which is the opposite of what a light thematic touch should be.

Other than that, I agree he probably could use a minor boost.
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