Dignan's Competitive Unit Errata

[Sweetcurse]

Not at all! Same stats I know, but the power is quite different...and I'd get to use all the extra tarn I have lying around the house doing nothing...the bums!

[rym]

Sweetcurse, DrLivingston and I did exactly that with the Tarns back during our EPIC Gameday II last year. Surprisingly (or not), the Tarns with bonding with the Viking Champions turned out to be a really awesome combo and was a lot of fun to play.

[Sweetcurse]

Thanks, seems like they SHOULD work that way right?

[DrLivingston]

I played Hatamoto Toro and Acolarh last night.

I played a multi-player game with:

120 Kaemon Awa
100 Hatamoto Toro
130 Samurai Archers x 2
TOTAL = 350

and a 2 player kill 'em all game with:

120 Kaemon Awa
100 Hatamoto Toro
130 Samurai Archers x 2
120 Tagawa Samurai
30 Guilty
TOTAL = 500

And Toro was worth it for the first time ever! The Einer symbol = defense saved my bacon several times. But it didn't work every time or even too much of the time.

At 100 points I could have dropped Guilty and had 2 more archers or kept Guilty and picked up Kozuke Samurai, but I was happy with Toro.

Which I guess means he worth his points to me.

So he seems great.

I played another 2 player Kill 'em all with:

110 Acolarh
210 Archers x 3
150 Warriors of Ashra x 3
20 Kyntela Gwyn
TOTAL = 490

I rolled the three symbols I needed to save an elf life 3 out of 15 times.

Which was 1 in 5.

I don't know from math, but I was told I was actually rolling better than I should have.

Whatever.

He was NOT worth it. The extra move got me to a glyph and that bit was good, but the getting 3 symbols out of eleven dice wasn't happening for me.

I would have been happier dropping Acolarh and getting another squad of Warriors and another squad of Archers.

He wasn't worth it. I guess rolling all 12 dice seems like too much, but it only works on elves! If it worked on everybody or even everybody Ullar, I'd understand, but elves?

I'd say let him use all 12 dice. If he still blows (and he might), maybe drop his points to 100?

So Toro = good and Acolarh = need more work.

[Dignan]

Originally Posted by DrLivingston

So Toro = good and Acolarh = need more work.

Yeah, seeing the odds play out in action really made it evident that even a 20% save chance is pretty bad. The real test was the fact that your opponent never felt the need to target Acolarh. It's not like Raelin where a player needs to target the aura figure first. We can probably try it with 12 dice. I don't think it will have a huge impact on the odds (espically for a given game), but it might be enough to matter (ie force you opponent to target Acolarh).

In other errata news, I tested out the EI with Kiova bonding. While my rolling wasn't great, it wasn't terrible. Even with the defense glyph and Kiova's aura, the EI can die at an alarming rate (considering their cost). Also, while they can definitely throw out some damage, it only takes a bad attack here and there to leave them high and dry. They didn't feel imbalanced, but I'll need to play them more.

The same story holds true for monks with Woo. They seemed pretty good as long as they were able to stay within 2 of Woo. I think them being a three man unit helps keep them from being too powerful. Again, we'll have to test them out more, but after the initial games, they didn't feel overpowered.

Sudema was tried out by a couple of people last night. She is the definiation of a glass cannon. With a smart move and a couple of good rolls, she can do some damage, but man is she easy to kill. You have to be real careful with her. The fact that she needs to get within 4 to stare people is a real balancing factor with her (considering her health and defense). You have to pick and choose her spots and be a little lucky for her to pay off.

I'm not sure what else people tried out last night. We had 3 games going at a time so I didn't see everything that was being played. I know Gorillias were played, but I'm not sure how if they encountered any special attacks, so the change probably wasn't really evaluated. They did appear to be viable against normal attacks in the one game I watched.

Anyway, we'll continue to try these guys out and see how the play under more games.

[killercactus]

Who else was in Sudema's army? IMO, she needs Raelin and Deathreavers with her to be worth it. Without that kind of protection, she just dies. Coincidentally....

Raelin - 80
Deathreavers x2 - 160
Sudema - 300

leaving you with a bunch of options to round out an army. I played Q10 and Marro Warriors once in a 500 point tourney with this and went 3-2. I think it's doable, especially with that new power.

[Velenne]

In my opinion, Acolarh and Hatamoto need bonding. Imagine if Gilbert or Ornak didn't have bonding. How often would you use them? Bonding is huge for the flagbearers.

Monkey, not so much. But Acolarh is a must IMO.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Velenne

In my opinion, Acolarh and Hatamoto need bonding. Imagine if Gilbert or Ornak didn't have bonding. How often would you use them? Bonding is huge for the flagbearers.

Monkey, not so much. But Acolarh is a must IMO.

He kinda has it though with Ulginesh, and even Taro does to with Kato. You'd need higher point games to exploit these, though.

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by Sweetcurse

Also, have you thought of playing the Tarns at 70 points as commons with champion bonding?

I look forward to hearing more about this combo. Did you guys try them as a common squad + bonding yet or just with bonding alone?

I love when a unit has abilities that enhance the spirit of the unit. A wave of berserking vikings should be scary.

[Dignan]

I've been mulling those over for a bit, what is everyone's feeling on MacDirks? Personally, I think they could be awesome (and do deal some serious damage on occasion). What is everyone's reaction to changing their defense from 2 to 3?

They would still be average speed, with defense below the crucial 4 mark, and expensive. It doesn't seem to make them overpowered. Thoughts?

[DrLivingston]

Originally Posted by Gulp

I look forward to hearing more about this combo. Did you guys try them as a common squad + bonding yet or just with bonding alone?

I love when a unit has abilities that enhance the spirit of the unit. A wave of berserking vikings should be scary.

We ran this army:

110 Valguard
80 Thorgrim
80 Finn
30 Eldgrim
150 Viking Warriors x 3*
total = 450
*The Viking Warriors will be a common squad for this event. When using Berserk Charge, ANY four Viking Warriors may move. When attacking, ANY four Viking Warriors may attack. The Viking Warriors will also have Viking Unique Hero Bonding. This will let the player take a turn with a unique viking hero before taking a turn with the Viking Warriors.

It was sooo much fun.

Being able to move anyone with the berserk charge helps get them in position and being able to attack with any of the Vikings (even one that didn't move) was also helpful.

Most of the time the Viking Spirits ended up on Valguard and he just became a beast!

50 points probably way too cheap for a squad.

But super fun.

Originally Posted by Dignan

I've been mulling those over for a bit, what is everyone's feeling on MacDirks? Personally, I think they could be awesome (and do deal some serious damage on occasion). What is everyone's reaction to changing their defense from 2 to 3?

They would still be average speed, with defense below the crucial 4 mark, and expensive. It doesn't seem to make them overpowered. Thoughts?

Heck yeah! I want to try that one next!

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by DrLivingston

We ran this army:

110 Valguard
80 Thorgrim
80 Finn
30 Eldgrim
150 Viking Warriors x 3*
total = 450
*The Viking Warriors will be a common squad for this event. When using Berserk Charge, ANY four Viking Warriors may move. When attacking, ANY four Viking Warriors may attack. The Viking Warriors will also have Viking Unique Hero Bonding. This will let the player take a turn with a unique viking hero before taking a turn with the Viking Warriors.

It was sooo much fun.

Being able to move anyone with the berserk charge helps get them in position and being able to attack with any of the Vikings (even one that didn't move) was also helpful.

Most of the time the Viking Spirits ended up on Valguard and he just became a beast!

50 points probably way too cheap for a squad.

But super fun.

Sounds like a blast. I'm glad you added the ANY part.

Your post brings up a question. How much errata is too much?

1. Changing the Vikings to a Common Squad
2. Giving them bonding
3. Changing their text to read ANY (which is an understandable change considering the common squad status)
4. And now it becomes clear that they should possibly have their cost changed to fit #1-3

They sound fun to play with, but at what point do they stop being errata and become a completely different unit altogether?