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  #25  
Old November 3rd, 2020, 12:52 PM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

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Poke - any interest in finishing these two off?

Hehe, yes. I have been working on doing things to get me scaling again. I was wanting to give these girls a spin myself(i also planned to do the same for my C3G design). My progress hasn't been the fastest though.
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  #26  
Old November 4th, 2020, 09:48 PM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Poke - any interest in finishing these two off?

Hehe, yes. I have been working on doing things to get me scaling again. I was wanting to give these girls a spin myself(i also planned to do the same for my C3G design). My progress hasn't been the fastest though.
Taking a pair of sisters for a spin is a dream we all had. I think our days of living such a dream are way behind both of us... oh you meant a game of scape with these two figures. My bad.
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  #27  
Old August 28th, 2021, 06:58 AM
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Re: Helmaverse League International



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  #28  
Old August 28th, 2021, 09:26 AM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Up next Abra Kadabra

ABRA KADABRA

HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
ILLUSIONIST
EGOMANIACAL
(or we could just go with the standard TRICKY)
MEDIUM 5

Life: 4
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

Points: TBD

HYPNO-RAY 18
After an opponent's Unique Hero ends a turn within 4 clear sight spaces of Abra Kadabra roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take temporary control of that hero and immediately take a turn with the hero. At the end of that turn, control of the Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before the Hypno-Ray. All Order Markers that were on the chosen Hero's card will stay on the card.

SMOKE AND MIRRORS
When Abra Kadabra or a figure you control within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra is attacked, you may choose that figure and roll the 20-sided die. Add 4 to the roll if the chosen figure is Abra Kadabra. If you roll 14 or higher, you may swap the chosen figure with another figure within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra. The swapped figure must defend against the attack and take damage as normal instead of the chosen figure. The chosen figure and the swapped figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks when swapped using Smoke and Mirrors.


Initial design:
Spoiler Alert!

Last edited by A3n; January 4th, 2022 at 02:24 AM.
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  #29  
Old August 29th, 2021, 12:49 PM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Love, love, love the way the sisters look in color. I even ran out and bought printer ink last night (I'm still amazed that one round of replacement ink cost more than the whole printer, what a scam).

So, you really had to go and start alphabetical didn't you. Abra is one of the few figures we do not yet own on your intended list. No worries, that just gives us something new to hunt down. Buying a mini for a card that is in process is way more promising than are usual habit of buying a mini with great intentions only to have it sit and collect dust for years. We've got a few of those stashed away. I just may pull a few out and see if inspiration hits me.

Anyway, back to Abra and my initial thoughts.

1) We've used "Egomaniacal" as the personality on Lex Luthor. I don't know Abra that well but is his egotism more prevalent than his trickiness? I'd rather not use Tricky unless we have to. It seems overused.

2) Magician - We've used Sorcerer (official) on anyone with real magic powers so that special powers can reference them as a group. We've used Illusionist on Mysterio because we see him as tech based on not really a sorcerer. Would you like your vision of Abra to be a true Sorcerer with Strange, Fate, Rasputin, and Scarlet Witch? A tech user like Mysterio? Or do you want to start a new lower level magic user called "Magician" that doesn't get affected by powers affecting sorcerers? I'm good with any option, just wanted to help you find the fit for your vision.

3) Prestidigitation - One of these days I guess I have to get over my OCD regarding attack dice and the player option to utilize the original blue and red dice that only have skulls or shields. No, I'm not a dinosaur that actually uses those dice. My attack and defense are the same white dice with all symbols but I don't think the official game ever referenced "shields" rolled during an attack or "skulls" rolled during a defense roll. In fact, I know the C3G references "blanks" but we've yet to do that in the HelmAverse. The closest thing I think official came to it was with the flag bearers who had their own dice with special symbols on the blanks. Anyway, I'm probably being ridiculous but does it change the mechanic too much to consider something similar to Pym Particle Shrinking or Emerald Force Shield?




Also, this line "Any shields added by Prestidigitation cannot be used by the attacker for any special power on their card." has me wondering how it would work for Bullseye's Flawless Aim? What is the timing of Abra's power, is it after Bullseye rerolls or can he not reroll shields on the first roll? He's not "using" the shields on the first roll but rather rerolling them.



4) Disappearing Act is a nice power. It's kiting for sure but it's only 50% effective and he's not an offensive powerhouse that would make this power scary. It will be fun to playtest this.

5) One last thing I would ask myself when drafting Abra is, when would I put an Order Marker on him? Does he have a purpose or help any strategy by bringing him into the fight? I need to strategize a bit on this as I really like the idea of having a new Flash villain added to the mix. Can we think of anything in his power set that makes him play fun against the Flash? It's not necessary but one thing we try to do is add in subtleties that make match ups fun (See my explanation as to how Grundy matches up against both Batman and Green Lantern, likewise, both Green Goblin and Sandman have abilities and play styles that work fun against Spider-Man, Bullseye sort of counters Daredevil, Lex Luthor is almost too connected to Superman and Supergirl). Ah, maybe I'm rambling now. Just trying to get my own mind thinking about possibilities. Sorry for the madness overload.

Last edited by Matt Helm; August 29th, 2021 at 01:28 PM.
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  #30  
Old August 30th, 2021, 04:18 AM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
(I'm still amazed that one round of replacement ink cost more than the whole printer, what a scam).
Yep, the money is in the consumables not the tangible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
So, you really had to go and start alphabetical didn't you. Abra is one of the few figures we do not yet own on your intended list. No worries, that just gives us something new to hunt down. Buying a mini for a card that is in process is way more promising than are usual habit of buying a mini with great intentions only to have it sit and collect dust for years. We've got a few of those stashed away. I just may pull a few out and see if inspiration hits me.
An excuse to buy more plastic dolls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Anyway, back to Abra and my initial thoughts.

1) We've used "Egomaniacal" as the personality on Lex Luthor. I don't know Abra that well but is his egotism more prevalent than his trickiness? I'd rather not use Tricky unless we have to. It seems overused.

2) Magician - We've used Sorcerer (official) on anyone with real magic powers so that special powers can reference them as a group. We've used Illusionist on Mysterio because we see him as tech based on not really a sorcerer. Would you like your vision of Abra to be a true Sorcerer with Strange, Fate, Rasputin, and Scarlet Witch? A tech user like Mysterio? Or do you want to start a new lower level magic user called "Magician" that doesn't get affected by powers affecting sorcerers? I'm good with any option, just wanted to help you find the fit for your vision.
Egomaniacal is close enough .
Basically the same as Mysterio so Illusionist fits fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
3) Prestidigitation - One of these days I guess I have to get over my OCD regarding attack dice and the player option to utilize the original blue and red dice that only have skulls or shields. No, I'm not a dinosaur that actually uses those dice. My attack and defense are the same white dice with all symbols but I don't think the official game ever referenced "shields" rolled during an attack or "skulls" rolled during a defense roll. In fact, I know the C3G references "blanks" but we've yet to do that in the HelmAverse. The closest thing I think official came to it was with the flag bearers who had their own dice with special symbols on the blanks. Anyway, I'm probably being ridiculous but does it change the mechanic too much to consider something similar to Pym Particle Shrinking or Emerald Force Shield?
And I'll have to remember to move away from some of the concepts introduced with C3G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Also, this line "Any shields added by Prestidigitation cannot be used by the attacker for any special power on their card." has me wondering how it would work for Bullseye's Flawless Aim? What is the timing of Abra's power, is it after Bullseye rerolls or can he not reroll shields on the first roll? He's not "using" the shields on the first roll but rather rerolling them.
The intent was only if they did something after rolling. We don't want to have FAQs so I will try to avoid that type of interaction.

Scrapped this power all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
4) Disappearing Act is a nice power. It's kiting for sure but it's only 50% effective and he's not an offensive powerhouse that would make this power scary. It will be fun to playtest this.
Yep. It was just to give him a little more survivability. However I forgot that you already had a Disappearing Act on Mysterio so I revamped this with completely with some Smoke and Mirrors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
5) One last thing I would ask myself when drafting Abra is, when would I put an Order Marker on him? Does he have a purpose or help any strategy by bringing him into the fight? I need to strategize a bit on this as I really like the idea of having a new Flash villain added to the mix. Can we think of anything in his power set that makes him play fun against the Flash? It's not necessary but one thing we try to do is add in subtleties that make match ups fun (See my explanation as to how Grundy matches up against both Batman and Green Lantern, likewise, both Green Goblin and Sandman have abilities and play styles that work fun against Spider-Man, Bullseye sort of counters Daredevil, Lex Luthor is almost too connected to Superman and Supergirl). Ah, maybe I'm rambling now. Just trying to get my own mind thinking about possibilities. Sorry for the madness overload.
Good thoughts. Flash is one hard figure to plan powers against, but hopefully the re-write has helped that a bit while remaining true to who Abra Kadabra is.
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  #31  
Old August 31st, 2021, 08:12 PM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Thanks for being so flexible. I think my feedback was a bit overload but I'm glad you considered it in the same way my kids do. This is the kind of thing we go through all the time and why designs like Cyclops literally took years and some of the other designs we have get tossed to the back of the line (I'm looking at you Captain Atom) or thrown into a dungeon (cough... Blade... cough).

I'm also glad that you kept the original design in the post because we may circle back and steal something from it. I definitely see some real fun potential starting to bubble up.

Quote:
HYPNO-RAY
Instead of attacking with Abra Kadabra you may use choose an opponents figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Abra Kadabra and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, you may move the chosen figure using it's normal movement. You may also remove one unrevealed order markers from it's Army Card.
Question: Can the figure use a Special Power when moving? Some powers say "instead of moving normally" while others say "When moving...". (I'm thinking disengage type powers). Typically, I would see powers moving other figures dictate exactly how many spaces they move and whether or not they take engagement attacks.

Quote:
SMOKE AND MIRRORS
When Abra Kadabra or a figure you control within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra is attacked, you may choose that figure and roll the 20-sided die. Add 4 to the roll if the chosen figure is Abra Kadabra. If you roll 14 or higher, you may swap the chosen figure with another figure within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra. The swapped figure must defend against the attack and take damage as normal instead of the chosen figure. The chosen figure and the swapped figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks when swapped using Smoke and Mirrors.
Comment: Although I don't usually like the idea of two 20-sided die powers on the same card, this one has me really intrigued. I like this a lot and just need to test it to see if it is missing anything.
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  #32  
Old September 1st, 2021, 07:01 AM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Thanks for being so flexible. I think my feedback was a bit overload but I'm glad you considered it in the same way my kids do. This is the kind of thing we go through all the time and why designs like Cyclops literally took years and some of the other designs we have get tossed to the back of the line (I'm looking at you Captain Atom) or thrown into a dungeon (cough... Blade... cough).
This has always been the plan. I don't want to make a design that Helm Inc will not use. So going back & forth with a design is just part of the process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
I'm also glad that you kept the original design in the post because we may circle back and steal something from it. I definitely see some real fun potential starting to bubble up.

Quote:
HYPNO-RAY
Instead of attacking with Abra Kadabra you may choose an opponents figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Abra Kadabra and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, you may move the chosen figure using it's normal movement. You may also remove one unrevealed order markers from it's Army Card.
Question: Can the figure use a Special Power when moving? Some powers say "instead of moving normally" while others say "When moving...". (I'm thinking disengage type powers). Typically, I would see powers moving other figures dictate exactly how many spaces they move and whether or not they take engagement attacks.
The intent was that you wouldn't be able to use any moving powers with the move which is why I stated "normal movement". However I agree that that is a bit grey when the power says "instead of moving normally". I didn't want to use an arbitrary number to move the figures as the idea was to have to option to make it so the figure was still another turn away (including the Flash) by moving them their full distance. Is it also too mean if we let them take leaving engagement attacks? (Maybe a bit too much.) If I leave off the OM removal I think the target roll should come down. And/or the "Instead of attacking" be changed to "Before attacking" or "After attacking". Options, let's try just dropping the OM removal & lowering the target roll for starters. Then if you think it needs more cow-bell there are these options.
Quote:
HYPNO-RAY
Instead of attacking with Abra Kadabra you may choose an opponents figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Abra Kadabra and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 14 or higher, you may move the chosen figure a number of spaces equal to the movement value on it's Army Card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Quote:
SMOKE AND MIRRORS
When Abra Kadabra or a figure you control within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra is attacked, you may choose that figure and roll the 20-sided die. Add 4 to the roll if the chosen figure is Abra Kadabra. If you roll 14 or higher, you may swap the chosen figure with another figure within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra. The swapped figure must defend against the attack and take damage as normal instead of the chosen figure. The chosen figure and the swapped figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks when swapped using Smoke and Mirrors.
Comment: Although I don't usually like the idea of two 20-sided die powers on the same card, this one has me really intrigued. I like this a lot and just need to test it to see if it is missing anything.
I was hesitant at first but then I figured it did kind of suit the character. He is more about using technology than the fisticuffs. And I think these powers would also help him be an option in an army against the Flash.
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  #33  
Old December 15th, 2021, 08:49 AM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

@Matt Helm , any more feedback here?
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  #34  
Old December 15th, 2021, 10:27 PM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Rumor has it that Santa is bringing me an Abra Kadabra mini in my stocking this year. With Helm Jr. coming home from college this weekend, I'm hoping to get some holiday scape in a few times over the next few weeks. At the very least, we are going to frustrate Mrs. Helm with scape talk and brainstorming.

I guess the answer to your question is, Mr. Kadabra is next up on our list of down and dirty analysis, play testing, idea sharing, etc. We have a few other half baked ideas on other figures but what you have written here definitely places him at the head of the pack.
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  #35  
Old January 2nd, 2022, 06:16 PM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
Up next Abra Kadabra

ABRA KADABRA

HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
ILLUSIONIST
EGOMANIACAL
(or we could just go with the standard TRICKY)
MEDIUM 5

Life: 4
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

Points: TBD

HYPNO-RAY
Instead of attacking with Abra Kadabra you may choose an opponents figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Abra Kadabra and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, you may move the chosen figure using it's normal movement. You may also remove one unrevealed order markers from it's Army Card.

SMOKE AND MIRRORS
When Abra Kadabra or a figure you control within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra is attacked, you may choose that figure and roll the 20-sided die. Add 4 to the roll if the chosen figure is Abra Kadabra. If you roll 14 or higher, you may swap the chosen figure with another figure within 5 spaces of Abra Kadabra. The swapped figure must defend against the attack and take damage as normal instead of the chosen figure. The chosen figure and the swapped figure will not take any leaving engagement attacks when swapped using Smoke and Mirrors.
Santa brought me an Abee-Kadabee figure recently and he is now glued to a base. Hopefully it was the same one you were considering.

As we banged around a few ideas over in the Helm household, we came up with an idea to run past you. As of now, Instead of attacking, he can use his Hypno Ray for a 25% chance of removing an OM and moving an opponent's figure away. So basically, you are using one of your turns for a low percent chance of negating the other player's future turn. It doesn't seem to be a good reward for the risk and we fear that Kadabra wouldn't warrant OMs at all.

So what if he got the chance to Hyno-Ray other units on their turn rather than his? Sort of a reactive Doctor Doom power?

HYPNO-RAY 18
After an opponent's Unique Hero ends a turn within 4 clear sight spaces of Abra Kadabra roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 18 or higher, you may take temporary control of that hero and immediately take a turn with the hero. At the end of that turn, control of the Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before the Hypno-Ray. All Order Markers that were on the chosen Hero's card will stay on the card.

Last edited by Matt Helm; January 2nd, 2022 at 06:40 PM.
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  #36  
Old January 4th, 2022, 02:25 AM
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Re: Helmaverse League International

Certainly happy with that. Update made.
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