The sale of custom figures / cards..... continued

[TheMedic]

I have started this thread, in response to the previous one. Basically, so that it doesn't keep drawing the other blatent advert to the front.

Originally Posted by Miniature Geek

Pimping your stash is not contributing. And not to mention most people who have done this in the past have used cards they stole from this site to make a profit.

The first sentance I agree with 100% - (Unless the person pimping their stuff, is also a regular contributor of other information, ideas etc.) Which unfortunately, the original poster of thsi topic was not. (2 posts in total.)

Anyway. The second point is one that I have been thinking about for some time. The ONLY custom I have put up for sale myself was the MEDIC, which was created entirely by me, before I had even found this site - However, I am sure that other people have at some point come up with similar ideas.

The point I am tryng to make, is that the creation of Heroscape customs is always going to be a very grey, murky area. Who can claim the right to any particular figure / ability / etc.

I will have to enlarge on this later.

[Fallen Templar]

Originally Posted by TheMedic

The point I am tryng to make, is that the creation of Heroscape customs is always going to be a very grey, murky area. Who can claim the right to any particular figure / ability / etc.

I will have to enlarge on this later.

US intellectual property laws disagree with you on this point. Created content on the web is protected by basic IP laws. Powers and completed cards are in theory protected.

[TheMedic]

Originally Posted by Fallen Templar

US intellectual property laws disagree with you on this point. Created content on the web is protected by basic IP laws. Powers and completed cards are in theory protected.

Sorry I had to cut out before I managed to finish what I was writing.

Again, I agree with the point put forward. BUT, if somebody decides to create a custom figure of an existing character. If they do not directly copy the exact wording on your created card, and all of it's design features - (ie image chosen, style of writing etc), then can it be claimed as stolen? and how much alteration needs to be made for it not to be YOUR design?

Have the original concept ideas already been stolen from DC or Marvel to create the figure by the custom orignator?

Have Hasbro / WotC been infringed because the card style and basic game mechanics have been utilised to make the card playable?

To give a more specific example, I have downloaded a couple of versions of The Joker from here. I like both of them, and intend to make use of a couple of ideas from each, as well as putting in one of my own ideas. (This figure will be for my own use incidentally!) I may sell one of my jokers, but not until I have ironed out all the issues, abilities and so forth for the Jokermobile, as I would put them together as a package. - so you see, the whole thing is based on ideas from here, but with the vast majority of the concept originated by myself.

Another prime example is with the standard Heroscape set - Samurais.

I could perhaps sell a set of standard set of Izumi Samurai as per the original set, OR I could paint them black and sell them as a set of Hirato Samurai, which I have downloaded from here OR I could give them a very similar power, paint them pink and call them the Tasheko Samurai.

So you see how interpretation, misentepretation, and the ownership of IP becomes less clear cut. (Again, I have no intention of selling ANY Samurai, because I need them ALL myself in their various guises to accompany Fu Manchu when I have him completed!)

I hope to post up images of some new characters later. Which of course you will all be welcome to use and abuse as you wish. :P

[Onacara]

I have stuff for sale on eBay but do not hawk it here because everyone here normally trolls eBay anyways..and I know I have sold to people on here before.

[Fallen Templar]

Originally Posted by Hasbro.com

Question

What are "Custom" Heroscape figures and terrain?

Answer

HEROSCAPE has a large fan base that enjoys creating custom additions to the established universe.

Custom additions are figures and terrain that are not created or distributed by Hasbro. We do not support or suggest using custom figures on our official HEROSCAPE battlefields, and we never include them in official scenarios and battlefields. Custom additions may not be copied from genuine Hasbro HEROSCAPE product.

The HEROSCAPE name can only be used to refer to genuine Hasbro HEROSCAPE product, it must be clear that any custom additions are not created by, distributed, or endorsed by Hasbro, and the following credit line must appear: "HEROSCAPE and all related characters are trademarks of Hasbro. © 2006 Hasbro. All Rights Reserved."

Just so this is established

Originally Posted by TheMedic

Again, I agree with the point put forward. BUT, if somebody decides to create a custom figure of an existing character. If they do not directly copy the exact wording on your created card, and all of it's design features - (ie image chosen, style of writing etc), then can it be claimed as stolen? and how much alteration needs to be made for it not to be YOUR design?

No, they need to copy the characters name for you to sue

Originally Posted by TheMedic

Have the original concept ideas already been stolen from DC or Marvel to create the figure by the custom orignator?

Marvel fits directly under the Hasbro statement above. DC is another story in that case Some Rights are reserved as they are sold to the public. Stats, Card Powers & wording would be yours but the established characters and their powers from the authors/artist is the property of the authors/artist and DC. As long your not claiming that you specifically created the character your good

Originally Posted by TheMedic

Have Hasbro / WotC been infringed because the card style and basic game mechanics have been utilised to make the card playable?

No because they have the rights to the powers and character directly from the creator(Craig, Rob) and the company the pimps characters because they hold enough right to (Marvel). Euclid does not own a copy right on the Hexagon

Originally Posted by TheMedic

To give a more specific example, I have downloaded a couple of versions of The Joker from here. I like both of them, and intend to make use of a couple of ideas from each, as well as putting in one of my own ideas. (This figure will be for my own use incidentally!) I may sell one of my jokers, but not until I have ironed out all the issues, abilities and so forth for the Jokermobile, as I would put them together as a package. - so you see, the whole thing is based on ideas from here, but with the vast majority of the concept originated by myself.

No you need to change the wording of the copied power from scaper's, but you can use the Hasbro ones as originally worded.

Originally Posted by TheMedic

I could perhaps sell a set of standard set of Izumi Samurai as per the original set, OR I could paint them black and sell them as a set of Hirato Samurai which I have downloaded from here,

No thats plagiarism as someone created the exact same card using the exact same figures

Originally Posted by TheMedic

OR I could give them a very similar power, paint them pink and call them the Tasheko Samurai.

Thats fine.

[Onacara]

Originally Posted by Fallen Templar

Just so this is established

Thats fine.

Is it?...You do not have the copyright to that particular Hasbro owned figure sculpt so I am going to say that you cannot do this. (Based on the section I highlighted above from Hasbros official stance on customs.)

If you however took another samurai figure from another game and rebased it and created a card for it for HS then it would be ok.

[Fallen Templar]

Originally Posted by Onacara

Is it?...You do not have the copyright to that particular Hasbro owned figure sculpt so I am going to say that you cannot do this. (Based on the section I highlighted above from Hasbros official stance on customs.)

If you however took another samurai figure from another game and rebased it and created a card for it for HS then it would be ok.

If he's referring to a non official Heroscape power than it's fine. One could argue that a repaint is not a genuine product.

[SVD997]

Originally Posted by Onacara

Is it?...You do not have the copyright to that particular Hasbro owned figure sculpt so I am going to say that you cannot do this. (Based on the section I highlighted above from Hasbros official stance on customs.)

If you however took another samurai figure from another game and rebased it and created a card for it for HS then it would be ok.

Just throwing this out there. What about the company who put the other samurai out? What if they don't want you doing that? I'm thinking about all the people here who create customs from HeroClix figures. What would the line be? Could you sell a MarvelClix character with a custom card? From what I've read so far, I would say 'yes' as long as you leave the figure unmodified. In this case, all your doing is selling a HeroClix figure with a card. However, what if you modify the figure? Let's say you take a HeroClix figure, and move them to a HS base. Now you've modified the original figure that WizKids released. What's WizKids policy? Do we need to find every companies policy? The only reason this issue even comes up is with eBay. This is just my opinion, but if your creating customs for the sole purpose of selling them, then I think your missing the point. Most of the people here create customs because they enjoy it, and they want to create a character they want to battle with. Most of the customs here are for using in a battle, not for selling. Obviously, there is a market for them since people are buying them, but I think that while some people put thought and care into creating them, others just want to make money from it. I just think that this is a can of worms that can go many different ways. I have been reading posts about this since I joined, and it has sparked some very interesting discussion. I am not sure where I stand on this matter, but it has provoked many interesting sides.

[Fallen Templar]

Originally Posted by SVD997

Just throwing this out there. What about the company who put the other samurai out? What if they don't want you doing that? I'm thinking about all the people here who create customs from HeroClix figures. What would the line be? Could you sell a MarvelClix character with a custom card? From what I've read so far, I would say 'yes' as long as you leave the figure unmodified. In this case, all your doing is selling a HeroClix figure with a card. However, what if you modify the figure? Let's say you take a HeroClix figure, and move them to a HS base. Now you've modified the original figure that WizKids released. What's WizKids policy? Do we need to find every companies policy? The only reason this issue even comes up is with eBay. This is just my opinion, but if your creating customs for the sole purpose of selling them, then I think your missing the point. Most of the people here create customs because they enjoy it, and they want to create a character they want to battle with. Most of the customs here are for using in a battle, not for selling. Obviously, there is a market for them since people are buying them, but I think that while some people put thought and care into creating them, others just want to make money from it. I just think that this is a can of worms that can go many different ways. I have been reading posts about this since I joined, and it has sparked some very interesting discussion. I am not sure where I stand on this matter, but it has provoked many interesting sides.

Wizkids Policy, like all company that sell products that can be modified, As long you do not claim the original work as your own it is fine to sell edited goods

[Jeabird]

I think for me the problem with the post is that the person is not sharing. Sharing indicates that there are two or more parties working towards a common goal. If they had posted their cards here, asked for advice with the understanding that the play tested versions might be for sale, then it's sharing. We get cards or powers, that once play tested, may contribute to the community. They get a better product to sell and the eBay buyer gets something that can use with friends and family. Not everybody is as talented as the custom creators here. Some people don't have the drive or time to make their own. For them eBay is a help. But when under priced, overpowered, custom are sold, it brings HS down for those poor souls and the community.