Decision 2016

[Rich10]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Well, sure, except that there is a long trail of meritorious accusations against Trump - racism, foolishness, potentially compromising business debts and associations - and he really said many of the awful things that he said.

Some of Trump's comments are so ill advised, foolish, racist, misogynistic, ... that it is incomprehensible that he is the Republican candidate for presidency of the US. He takes great insult at the slightest perceived offense. He speaks with a ridiculous, false, macho, bravado, that makes him temperamentally unfit to be president. Then shortly after explaining how he would destroy all of our enemies, he jokes about his "foot injury" that kept him out of Vietnam. Donald Trump is a joke.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

She's not perfect. I've said that before. But as for the list of grievances against her - email server, foundation, Benghazi - the closer I look, the more absurd each accusation appears.

Sorry, but Hillary doesn't get a free pass either. Her actions, at best, show an unwillingness to consider the appearance (if not the actual reality) of impropriety. All of her decisions seem to err on the side of secrecy and collecting money. As I said earlier, how is it that Obama has avoided all of these scandals? The Republicans don't like him anymore than Hillary. When you are constantly surrounded by scandal and controversy, at some point it's not everyone else.

The best thing that you can say about Hillary is that at least she's not Trump. I may need a drink before (and after) I vote this year.

[Dad_Scaper]

She doesn't get a free pass from me. She deserves scrutiny, as any candidate does. In an ordinary election cycle, we might compare her seriously to the other party's candidate.

As it is, I don't think there's a serious comparison to be made. I am too lazy to find the links now, but prominent Texas newspapers, papers that do *not* normally endorse the Democratic candidate, are already doing so. Well in advance of the election.

You want to talk about foundations and election fraud? How about Trump using his foundation to pay off Pam Bondi, Florida's AG, to get Florida to stop looking into shenanigans at Trump University. Not the Clinton Foundation, which is (AFAICT) universally regarded as a highly efficient force for good in the world.

This whole thing is ridiculous. We look ridiculous, as a nation. Not because of Clinton, who is (whether you like her or not) actually qualified for the job, but because of Trump. Like I said about Clinton upthread, you don't have to like her, but she was a U.S. Senator and the Secretary of State. Just as W. had been Governor of Texas and Obama had been a Senator, she is qualified for the job.

Trump is not. He has no relevant experience and is simply unfit for what may be the single most important job in the world. He has enabled the worst of us, and the media have normalized what he brings to the table, by covering relatively minor bits about Clinton and declining to keep digging into the many, many skeletons in the Trump closet.

We are in dire straits, and our news outlets are so weak in the knees that they cling to an imaginary and shifting middle, unmoored from an honest and unmoving center.

[Rich10]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Trump is not. He has no relevant experience and is simply unfit for what may be the single most important job in the world. He has enabled the worst of us, and the media have normalized what he brings to the table, by covering relatively minor bits about Clinton and declining to keep digging into the many, many skeletons in the Trump closet.

I don't even demand relevant experience. I'd settle for a smart person with common sense. Someone who is smart enough to know that he/she doesn't know everything. Someone who doesn't think that he knows more about a military operation than our generals. Someone who doesn't think that he can exclude Muslims from this country. Trump is like a caricature from Saturday Night Live. The problem is that there's no punch line. With Trump, you don't need to rattle for skeletons in the closet. Just look at the latest stupid thing that he said.

[twilkerson]

Good morning!

If you are having difficulty selecting a candidate this year, take this 10 minute unbiased quiz based on political issues. It will give you percentage based results of how you align with each candidate:

http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2...sidential-quiz

My survey produced 97% alignment Gary Johnson!
(Clinton and Trump were both in the 70% neighborhood.)

[Rich10]

Originally Posted by twilkerson

Good morning!

If you are having difficulty selecting a candidate this year, take this 10 minute unbiased quiz based on political issues. It will give you percentage based results of how you align with each candidate:

http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2...sidential-quiz

My survey produced 97% alignment Gary Johnson!
(Clinton and Trump were both in the 70% neighborhood.)

Although I was sided primarily with Trump (93%) and not with Clinton (36%), I still can't vote Trump. Maybe voting for Gary Johnson (88%) wouldn't make me feel quite as nauseous.

[Dad_Scaper]

Trump would be ecstatic if people decided to vote based on what a computer program told them about him, without regard (as you say) for his countless and obvious failings. As for Johnson, that's something else the computer program isn't capturing.

[vegietarian18]

ISideWith tends to frequently tell people that they are really Liberterians and they just didn't know it yet. I'm not sure why, maybe because most people have the ideal that the government shouldn't be involved in their lives and their quiz is very idealistic, but I know that Gary Johnson himself mentions that quiz quite a lot in interviews. I don't know how much you can learn from a quiz that tells you to support the candidate that tells you about the quiz.

Johnson does lack foreign policy experience, but I don't think he is actually running with the intent to win, so it's slightly more forgivable than Trump's.

[wriggz]

Most people just don't realize how much the government is involved in their lives until it is either obvious or difficult.

When we are students in elementary or high school it does not occur to us that is a government instution. We forget as students we spent the governments money. More over everytime we are assisted by someone with an education or receive care after retirement, that is money well spent (the reason why the childless still need to support schools). Police and legal services, Fire, public transit, garbage collection, ensuring fair trade with other countries, protection of human rights, protection from our enemy's and our boarders, workers rights, the list goes on and on.

People say that the free market can do things better. Looking at health care systems around the world seems to disprove that (Compare Canada, France, Cuba and the US). Free market education seems to be the same way (look at Scandinavia which has eliminated private schools). I shutter to think what a free market police or fire force would look like. I don't even know what free market defense of human rights would look like, and I don't want too.


Free market luxuries is Awesome. Free market necessities is terrifying.


Sure I think people should choose if they want to smoke a bit of weed, Marry whom ever they like, worship which ever god they want, and have the right to die. Pierre Trudeau (Justin's dad) was famous for saying the Government has no business in peoples bed rooms. However, you want to store anthrax on your property? You refuse to hire red heads? You want to be able to sell heroin? You want ALL the MONEY? Yeah, sorry no. Sometimes we need smarter people to make smarter decisions. If government wasn't involved we Sydney would not be livable the Ozone hole would be that big and Slavery might actually still be a thing. DARPA, NASA and Public Universities are responsible for some of the biggest innovation of all time, that would have been too costly for business to invest in.

All these "No government" nuts, will be happy the CDC and Armed forces exists when the Zombie Plague starts.

In a few years the debate about the "right to drive" will start creeping into our discourse. "I'm a safe driver, I should have the right to drive" will be the chorus. This will be a time where public safety should out way individual sentiment. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

[Ranior]

Originally Posted by wriggz

I shutter to think what a free market police or fire force would look like.

Not quite technically free market firefighters, but basically is. This is what it looks like.

[Nukatha]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

As for Johnson, that's something else the computer program isn't capturing.

I hear on the radio or read news headlines about Syria most days of the week. Prior to today, I did not know the name of that city, and I cannot blame anyone for not knowing the name of said city. If the interviewer had simply asked "What do you think of the current situation in Syria', Johnson would have answered it without a problem, and in fact, he did answer that question adequately. I will gladly take a president who admits when he doesn't know something, then immediately gathers the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision on the topic.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by Ranior

Not quite technically free market firefighters, but basically is. This is what it looks like.

So either the Home owners are stupid - in which case having wiser people step in to protect them is only logical


OR


The home owners could not afford the expense - in which case having wealthier people step in to protect them is only logical.


Assuming they also don't have insurance now there is a family that will be a cost to society at large. Society would be much worse if everyone on welfare were homeless and destitute. Free-market charity is not even remotely as effective as social programs.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

I hear on the radio or read news headlines about Syria most days of the week. Prior to today, I did not know the name of that city, and I cannot blame anyone for not knowing the name of said city. If the interviewer had simply asked "What do you think of the current situation in Syria', Johnson would have answered it without a problem, and in fact, he did answer that question adequately. I will gladly take a president who admits when he doesn't know something, then immediately gathers the knowledge necessary to make an informed decision on the topic.

You're not the one running for President, Nukatha.

In the real world, the President should actually know the basics of what's going on in the world, and how the American government functions, etc. The President shouldn't have to begin a meeting with a session of connect-the-dots, or whatever. There is no reason to think that Trump knows anything about foreign powers, foreign relations, the American government, state governments, or *anything*. At least Johnson was a former Governor, so he had that going for him. But not knowing what Aleppo is, when you're claiming to be prepared to serve as the President of the United States, is pretty bad.

edit:

I may have written this already upthread, but I think part of what's going on here is the idea that people have that this idea that some job *other* people have can be done by anybody. There is this idea that we, the non-specialists, are perfectly capable of second-guessing police, replacing journalists with our own hunches and cell phone pictures, or (heaven help us) being President. As if competence and expertise don't actually matter.

Well, I think those things do matter. I have a job, and some expertise in it. I am sure most of you do, as well. Could some person without any training or experience walk in off the sidewalk and do what you're doing? Assuming for a moment that you fell over dead and somebody untrained and inexperienced tried to do your job, what would happen to your responsibilities? What would become of the people or things that depend on you?

Of course we should not accept that experience and expertise are the only things that matter, or that they should not be scrutinized. But they matter a *lot*, to me.