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Architects of the Realms of Valhalla Discussion and presentation of the maps approved by the ARV. |
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#361
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Re: Workshop Thread
Thank you judges for your reviews on Drider! I am so pleased Nomad and Sir H had some great games on the little bugger, but also understand the points Flash_19 has made which echoed some of my own wrinkles I wasn’t sure I’d ironed out. I’d like to propose the following revision in hopes that it alleviates some of the issues mentioned while retaining the commendable aspects.
I’ve implemented Flash’s direct advice of removing both single hex outcrops and leaving their bases as shadow tiles. Addressing the movement issues in the north near Lodin has been a long standing struggle in designing this map. I’d originally made the decision to place the shadow tiles in those spots to weaken the level 3 central perch as much as possible even if it restricted development; I was hoping the small size of the map would even that decision out a hair. Removing the outcrops retains two hexes of shadow to contest the perch as well as increasing the amount of spaces it can be attacked from by two. I feel this weakens the perch enough to let me rearrange the original northern section, connecting the road, and removing the shadow dip. The shadows now surrounding Lodin provide some mobility around the glyph and keep the north inviting enough to still want to use. EDIT: Updated to fix double space glyph denial for Lodin. Lodin moved to lvl 0 and the single dungeon hex moved just south of the outcrop to further speed up lateral movement. Also a bonus, now the top down kinda looks like a dude with a mustache or a teddy bear face... UPDATED DRIDER PDF New and improved: The Completely Unnecessary Definitive List of Figure Weight My Maps My Sales and Trades List "Blade Gruts are 'heavier' than Heavy Gruts." Last edited by Ulysses; September 8th, 2021 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Update glyph denial |
#362
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Re: Workshop Thread
@Ulysses
So sorry I didn't see this earlier. I thought I was subscribed to this thread - I'll have to double check that. I'm totally down to review the updated version. @Sir Heroscape and @Nomad |
#363
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Re: Workshop Thread
oh wow, yeah I thought I was subscribed to this as well...oops.
to review the new Drider. @Ulysses can you please post a link to the new build instructions? Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#364
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Re: Workshop Thread
Quote:
Quote:
I've updated my post with the build instructions. The Completely Unnecessary Definitive List of Figure Weight My Maps My Sales and Trades List "Blade Gruts are 'heavier' than Heavy Gruts." |
#365
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Re: Workshop Thread
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Thumbs up to reviewing the revised Drider and I am looking forward to it. I will get it built this weekend and then start playtesting. |
#366
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Re: Workshop Thread
Request for Workshopping
Bloodbath BLVD hsc. File My Intent is to Learn. What it takes to make this map Tournament Ready. |
#367
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Re: Workshop Thread
@Joecrazy3193
to start, glad to see you utilizing this thread when not enough people do! so we'll see what we can do to assist in your quest to make this map better.
First off, it'd be really good to read up on some of our ARV Articles HERE. Specifically, read up on the "Map Craft" Articles as we discuss important aspects of building competitive and balanced maps. Starting there should help give you a bit more footing on what is expected of a "tournament-worthy" map and pitfalls to look for when designing your own maps. One of the most useful articles covers a "checklist" that will help you when you build your map to make sure it's balanced (see spoiler below).
Spoiler Alert!
I'll give some of my comments in referring to that checklist to start. Generally, our standard is if you can answer yes to 2 or more of those checklist questions, you’ll likely want to revise your map. Some maps can get away with doing 1 of those things, but when it does 2 or more the map can tend to be too imbalanced. Checklist You'll notice that in terms of balance, the map does a pretty good job on the checklist. The 2 big balance concerns with this map are how close the SZ's are for early Turn 1 power plays and the lack of glyphs that can make it more likely for an army that wants to pod to sit back under the ruin and pot-shot all day long. In addition to the above checklist, there are a few other things worth noting, that gave this map a "low score", and which coincide with my notes above: So...yes, that was a lot. Basically, here would be my suggestions: Start with that, and then we can go from there as you come up with new versions. Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#368
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Re: Workshop Thread
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#369
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Re: Workshop Thread
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The general concerns I had with your map (and I think this goes for some of the other judges as well) were as follows: 1) I want to see more dynamic height distribution throughout the map - this creates greater depth and allows for more strategic play because there are more interesting decisions to be made. 2) This critique builds off the first - there is quite a bit of terrain available in the sets you chose that you haven't used. You don't have to use everything, but you have the terrain to add greater depth and variety to your map, so I'd encourage you to do so. 3) The middle of the map looks like it could cause some headaches - there are a few choke points through the middle because of the orientation of the two ruins. With the way the glyphs are positioned (in the middle of the path instead of towards the outside edge), coming through the sides to flank an opponent will be harder - not to mention that a lot of that section is on level 0. This means most of the action is probably going to take place in the middle, and you'll want to make sure the action flows well through that part of the map. As a few positive notes - I love the shape, and I love the clear and concise start zones. I also really like the over all look of the map, so don't go too crazy in trying to overhaul the whole thing. Let me know if you'd like further clarification or help! Maybe some other judges will weigh in here too. @Sir Heroscape @Nomad @heroscaper2010 |
#370
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Re: Workshop Thread
I second a lot of what Flash pointed out. My issues had to do with:
1) Flatness of the map 2) The edges can be clogged down by 1 figure on a glyph 3) The center is easily clogged up Specifically for this map, think Rats. Rats break this map mercilessly. You just need a 1 squad to essentially lock up the "clog zones" and if you have a few more, all the better to fill and replace. What's more, it really goes for any army. Even all melee will struggle to combat through those chokepoints. Aesthetically I agree it looks quite good, but it does have some issues on the outset. Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#371
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Re: Workshop Thread
Looking at all of your Notes as well as asking for some extra assistance from the Discord page I have a second version of Bloodbath BLVD.
Trying to make the Map Fun, Competitive, Intense,and Aesthetically Pleasing with keeping the Theme of a City Environment. .HSC PDF of Bloodbath BLVD >I did extended the SZs from 11 to 13 spaces away from each other >added Glyphs >opened an alleyway on the right side of the map >narrowed the map in order to focus player movement on the left of the map >Removed 2nd story of Castle Walls |
#372
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Re: Workshop Thread
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1) The more power glyphs you have, the more of an advantage strong glyph holders like deathreavers have on the map. These strong glyph holders also have a large advantage when both sides can't access/contest glyphs in the same way. To be more specific - when a 6-move figure can access a glyph in two turns, where it takes 5-move figures 3 turns, that gives those 6 move figures an advantage. That situation applies for your map as it stands right now. It is also a problem when one glyph is easier for one side to control because it is significantly closer to their start zone. The game often turns into "your glyph, my glyph" and the team with the stronger glyph closer to them (or just better glyph for their army) gets a significant advantage. 2) Development out of the start zone still needs some adjusting in my opinion. Height distribution throughout a map is a vital consideration when planning out a map. Where that height is located and how easy it is to get to that height strongly influences how armies move out of a start zone. As you keep working on your map I would suggest that you think a lot about where armies are going to go, and where they aren't going to go based on desirability of position. In general, you want as much of the board as possible to be used. 3) Aesthetic is important, but balance is even more important. I realize you're going for a certain look, but I think it's creating problems for the overall balance. Dips in terrain can create problems in ranged versus melee matchups by forcing melee units to move down, thereby sacrificing height, in order to get to ranged units who are taking shots down at them. The way your map is set up is basically one massive dip through the entire map. The shadow tiles do help, and the defense glyph probably helps too - but I'm still torn on that one. 4) I would playtest your map as is right now with melee versus ranged armies. Have the ranged army be something like 4th Mass or 10th Reg and take careful note of where those armies want to pod up, and what parts of the map they have control over when they're podded up. |
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