The Book of Quicksilver (Avengers)

[Arkham]

The backup would be, if it leads to too much trouble as-is.

SWIFT AVENGER
At the start of the game, place a white Avenger Marker on the card of another Unique Hero you control. Once per round, if a friendly figure within clear sight of Quicksilver that has an Avenger Marker on its card is attacked normally, you may immediately move Quicksilver adjacent to the defending figure, if possible, then switch him and that figure, ignoring leaving engagement attacks. If you do, defend against the attack with Quicksilver and, if he does not receive any wounds from this attack, the attacking figure receives a wound.

It's once per round, but you wait until the attack is rolled first to know when it's worth expending. Only issue is, this version I believe directly butts heads with Heroic Duty, which I'm not sure how that would work.

[Arch-vile]

That’s a solid backup option. Cool to have an effect that triggers after attack dice as that is unusual for those types of powers.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

That’s a solid backup option. Cool to have an effect that triggers after attack dice as that is unusual for those types of powers.

Except the aforementioned Heroic Duty, which I'm not sure how that'd work in regards to it since it seems to be the same trigger and is a must.

[Arch-vile]

Yeah, I guess Heroic Duty would take precedent in that scenario since it’s a must. How would it work if there were two Heroic Duty figures? I guess it’d work the same here.

[tcglkn]

You choose one figure with Heroic Duty to activate, it's in the power.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

Yeah, I guess Heroic Duty would take precedent in that scenario since it’s a must. How would it work if there were two Heroic Duty figures? I guess it’d work the same here.

Only 1 person must use Heroic Duty, you get to choose them though. So it doesn't quite address this unfortunately.

[tcglkn]

It's weird but I think yours being optional works and I am sure we could word it to where if the defending figure is no longer the same (due to Heroic Duty already triggering) then the power just doesn't work.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Yeah we're talking cross company comparisons on things that differ depending on writers. But far and wide, Flash has done crazier things than Quicksilver. Even if only because Flash is 100% a main character with his own books and supporting cast, while QS is usually a side character.

So should QS be equal or higher cost than Flash?

[Arch-vile]

Ah, yeah that's tricky then regarding Heroic Duty.

IMO, cost has little to do with overall power level in many cases. Support abilities, command abilities, etc. can make up much of a point cost. Quicksilver has lower base speed than Flash which shows how he is not as fast.

[LordVenoc]

It does leave him engaged with the attacking figure, so by default he's now opened up to follow up attacks/turns, where none of his powers will help him unless you spend a turn with him to disengage, in which case he's likely your weakest attacker.

Right now this does not read as the case. He just swaps with the figure being attacked, and currently it works both if it is an adjacent attack or a ranged one, so it is kind of a juiced Heroic Duty as is.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by LordVenoc

Right now this does not read as the case. He just swaps with the figure being attacked, and currently it works both if it is an adjacent attack or a ranged one, so it is kind of a juiced Heroic Duty as is.

How is it not the case? If I engage Cap, target him, Quicksilver swaps with him, he’s now engaged. None of his powers are then making it harder to kill him, and any follow up attacks/turns directed at him will now avoid any swapping.

If the defending figure is unengaged, sure, he won’t be engaged, but that goes without saying. He’s still vulnerable to any attacks directed at him. If he had Speed Dodge it’d be a different story, but 5 L and 6 D, with whatever boosting, is not exactly a giant rock you’re stuck dealing with.

My point stands, that once he’s swapping in, he’s making himself a target right there for you to focus on. “Juiced Heroic Duty” is off the mark and oversimplifying it. Superman is much harder to kill, it’s a must vs. may, and isn’t ever putting the swapped in figure into engagement for follow up attacks. It’s also limited to those with Avenger markers which he only comes with one, at the range of his movement capabilities vs. Heroic Duty at 3 spaces, no marker attachment, only non-adjacent.

Played 1 game with him, he swapped in for Winter Soldier once and was killed before he did anything else within the next player turn, which consisted of 1 wound from Fist when swapped in, 3 from Cage from the following attack that turn, and 1 from Moon Knight the following turn to finish him.

If it’s a problem or people have ways to toss him in to already cheesy unfun pods to drive his cost, we can change it to the other option. I just need an answer on how it interacts with Heroic Duty first.

[LordVenoc]

It is oversimplifying, yes. My statement on it "not being the case" was more on that the original phrasing you used led me to believe that your intent was that this was only working on adjacent attacks. So just a miscommunication in that regard.

"Juiced Heroic Duty" while a simplification is simply to point out that it has all of the benefits (and more) of Heroic Duty with none of the drawbacks. Superman isnt the only Heroic Duty figure, and Heroic Duty's negative is easy to exploit to help take out Superman. No such exploitable negative here.

I would say that Heroic Duty triggers, then Quicksilver would actually have to trigger off the Heroic Duty figure. The issue is it would probably loop at that point until someone wound up adjacent.