Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Off-Topic > General
General Random thoughts and ideas. "General" does not mean random drivel, nonsense or inane silliness.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 28th, 2009, 05:49 PM
pinche_guey's Avatar
pinche_guey pinche_guey is offline
 
Join Date: July 18, 2007
Location: Burque Town, NM
Posts: 429
pinche_guey knows what's in an order marker pinche_guey knows what's in an order marker
Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Last fall, we discussed the presidential candidates and their plans for healthcare reform. I was impressed by the quality of posts that were placed. Now, we find ourselves in the middle of change in healthcare, and this will occur whether you like it or not. Recently, the Obama administration changed the terminology from "healthcare reform" to "health insurance reform," presumably due to the opposition he faced from both sides of the aisle. I thought I would ask for some thoughts on the issue. This is not a forum to discuss whether or not you agree with the prospect of healthcare changes, but rather a chance to comment on current proposals and what might work better for the majority of Americans. Some facts:

Healthcare accounts for 1/6 of the US GDP and makes up a larger portion of expenditure than in any other nation (~16%). The rate of rise of costs would make it the single greatest expenditure by 2020 at greater than 20% of our GDP. The US has a life expectancy of 35th out of 191 recognized nations. We spend 150% more per person on health care than the next most expensive systems (Japan & Germany), but rank poorer in terms of availability. The average wait time to see a clinician is not significantly different than in Canada, though some elective services may be more easily obtained here by those who can pay. (Some of these statistics may be a bit old, and please update me with any new data).

No general healthcare provider [that I have ever met] would conclude anything but: Our healthcare system is broken!

I have great concern that most proposed healthcare (insurance) changes will be unable to control the spiraling cost of care. While more people may have access (and this is yet to be seen), the gist of what I read suggests that we will be putting in expensive bandaids into an irreparable system.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 28th, 2009, 06:59 PM
Oh Yeah! I'm Here's Avatar
Oh Yeah! I'm Here Oh Yeah! I'm Here is offline
Midol, King of PMS
 
Join Date: March 25, 2007
Location: Stalking Aldin because he is awesome
Posts: 3,541
Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Well, I think that if they make Healthcare like Canada's or France's, we are not going to see an end to this economy any time soon. Just think, Insurance companies will go down the drain, and that is a lot of jobs. But I am uneducated and have only listened to a few conversations between my mom and dad, so ignore my ignorance.

I'm a F18, bro.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 28th, 2009, 07:14 PM
habs1009's Avatar
habs1009 habs1009 is offline
 
Join Date: May 28, 2009
Location: Canada - Ontario - Strathroy
Posts: 1,103
habs1009 knows what's in an order marker habs1009 knows what's in an order marker
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Is the healthcare becoming like the Canadian one?

My map thread.
Spoiler Alert!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:33 PM
jschild jschild is offline
Dr Feelgood
 
Join Date: January 4, 2009
Location: USA - KY - Louisville
Posts: 6,543
jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

hmmm...double post, sorry.

Now through May 28th, the Louisville region is in desperate need of platelets - call the Red Cross if you are interested in donating!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:35 PM
jschild jschild is offline
Dr Feelgood
 
Join Date: January 4, 2009
Location: USA - KY - Louisville
Posts: 6,543
jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs1009 View Post
Is the healthcare becoming like the Canadian one?
No, it's not.

In fact, what is being proposed is most like everyone getting the same options that workers in the federal government do. They can choose from dozens of different plans.

The biggest point of contention is the addition of a public plan (Which is not the same thing as single payer). The primary reason for the addition of a public plan is to force competition between insurance companies, who currently compete very little directly with each other.

Single Payer isn't even being seriously discussed, which is sad, because that is the simplest way to reduce medical spending. Currently 20 to 30% of all money spent is ate up by insurance and hospitals and doctors filling out paperwork and filing paperwork with all the various insurance agencies. In countries with universal healthcare, that number is 3-10% which would be a massive reduction. To give an idea of that reduction, tort reform would reduce medicial spending by about 1/2 of 1%.

I highly recommend checking out articles available on politifact.org and factcheck.org (both non partisan sites) on the accuracy of claims being bandied about, most of which are outright false.

We are the only industrilized nation in the world without universal health care. We do not have the best average health care in the world, or even close. In virtually every catagory we lag behind nations like Japan and France. We spend more per person than any other nation in the world for less effect.

Something has to be done. I don't like most of the choices but at least some people are trying instead of trying to scare seniors and fearmonger. Personally, I'd love the French system (often considered the best in the world, with Public insurance single payer system, but the medical profession is all private) but that won't happen. In that case I'd like a public option, because otherwise, the insurance companies will get to screw us even more than they already do. I don't have much hope however, as polls have already shown how gullible the majority of the American population is regarding this. We are so easy to fearmonger it's not even funny. Oh, and I'd like pre-existing conditions removed (most insurance companies wield that like a mace, knocking people off the roles when they need insurance the most). Sorry, rambling on, but that's my 2 cents.

EDIT: Here is a great article about healthcare from Business Week concerning our healthcare system vs. France's.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8/b4042070.htm

Now through May 28th, the Louisville region is in desperate need of platelets - call the Red Cross if you are interested in donating!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:48 PM
Einar's puppy's Avatar
Einar's puppy Einar's puppy is offline
All growed up
 
Join Date: February 19, 2008
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 7,660
Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Hey guys, can you answer something simple for me?

Is Canada a bad place to live? Oh wait, I can answer myself. It's not. In fact, Ottawa was ranked as the 16th best place to live in the world by forbes. What's 15? Ontario. Want to know what #4 is? Vancouver.

Why did I bring up this stuff? Simple, Canada wouldn't be such a nice place to live if its healthcare sucked, now would it?

Put it this way, the American Life Expectancy is 77.7 years. Canada's is 81.2. Now you tell me: Who's healthcare is better?

America is not adopting Canada's plan, but I sure do think we should.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:50 PM
Oh Yeah! I'm Here's Avatar
Oh Yeah! I'm Here Oh Yeah! I'm Here is offline
Midol, King of PMS
 
Join Date: March 25, 2007
Location: Stalking Aldin because he is awesome
Posts: 3,541
Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Einar's puppy View Post
Hey guys, can you answer something simple for me?

Is Canada a bad place to live? Oh wait, I can answer myself. It's not. In fact, Ottawa was ranked as the 16th best place to live in the world by forbes. What's 15? Ontario. Want to know what #4 is? Vancouver.

Why did I bring up this stuff? Simple, Canada wouldn't be such a nice place to live if its healthcare sucked, now would it?

Put it this way, the American Life Expectancy is 77.7 years. Canada's is 81.2. Now you tell me: Who's healthcare is better?

America is not adopting Canada's plan, but I sure do think we should.
IF we did, the economy would tank, just think how many jobs we would lose if we adopted their healthcare system. Many Insurance companies would be dissolved, and that is a lot of people losing jobs. Tell me, how will that help us?

I'm a F18, bro.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Einar's puppy's Avatar
Einar's puppy Einar's puppy is offline
All growed up
 
Join Date: February 19, 2008
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 7,660
Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Einar's puppy is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

I'd rather be jobless than dead...Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:55 PM
jschild jschild is offline
Dr Feelgood
 
Join Date: January 4, 2009
Location: USA - KY - Louisville
Posts: 6,543
jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh Yeah! I'm Here View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Einar's puppy View Post
Hey guys, can you answer something simple for me?

Is Canada a bad place to live? Oh wait, I can answer myself. It's not. In fact, Ottawa was ranked as the 16th best place to live in the world by forbes. What's 15? Ontario. Want to know what #4 is? Vancouver.

Why did I bring up this stuff? Simple, Canada wouldn't be such a nice place to live if its healthcare sucked, now would it?

Put it this way, the American Life Expectancy is 77.7 years. Canada's is 81.2. Now you tell me: Who's healthcare is better?

America is not adopting Canada's plan, but I sure do think we should.
IF we did, the economy would tank, just think how many jobs we would lose if we adopted their healthcare system. Many Insurance companies would be dissolved, and that is a lot of people losing jobs. Tell me, how will that help us?
So we should keep all the insurance companies (which is exactly what we are doing) whose sole purpose is to limit my care and make me pay as much for it as possible why denying as much as possible while tacking on fees to punish me further (sure, I don't mind paying 100 bucks more a month to keep my wife in the family plan I'm already paying you for just because she has the audacity to not want to use the ****ty insurance her job offers - just let me bend over).

No one is even talking about that anyway so what does it matter?

Now through May 28th, the Louisville region is in desperate need of platelets - call the Red Cross if you are interested in donating!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 28th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Oh Yeah! I'm Here's Avatar
Oh Yeah! I'm Here Oh Yeah! I'm Here is offline
Midol, King of PMS
 
Join Date: March 25, 2007
Location: Stalking Aldin because he is awesome
Posts: 3,541
Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschild View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh Yeah! I'm Here View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Einar's puppy View Post
Hey guys, can you answer something simple for me?

Is Canada a bad place to live? Oh wait, I can answer myself. It's not. In fact, Ottawa was ranked as the 16th best place to live in the world by forbes. What's 15? Ontario. Want to know what #4 is? Vancouver.

Why did I bring up this stuff? Simple, Canada wouldn't be such a nice place to live if its healthcare sucked, now would it?

Put it this way, the American Life Expectancy is 77.7 years. Canada's is 81.2. Now you tell me: Who's healthcare is better?

America is not adopting Canada's plan, but I sure do think we should.
IF we did, the economy would tank, just think how many jobs we would lose if we adopted their healthcare system. Many Insurance companies would be dissolved, and that is a lot of people losing jobs. Tell me, how will that help us?
So we should keep all the insurance companies (which is exactly what we are doing) whose sole purpose is to limit my care and make me pay as much for it as possible why denying as much as possible while tacking on fees to punish me further (sure, I don't mind paying 100 bucks more a month to keep my wife in the family plan I'm already paying you for just because she has the audacity to not want to use the ****ty insurance her job offers - just let me bend over).

No one is even talking about that anyway so what does it matter?
I am not saying it is good, and I hate insurance companies, but we have to realize that there are people in those insurance companies that work for them. These people are being paid money to work for them, and if we get rid of them, then we get rid of a tonload of jobs, which hurts the economy.

I'm a F18, bro.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 28th, 2009, 09:04 PM
jschild jschild is offline
Dr Feelgood
 
Join Date: January 4, 2009
Location: USA - KY - Louisville
Posts: 6,543
jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla jschild is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Quote:
I am not saying it is good, and I hate insurance companies, but we have to realize that there are people in those insurance companies that work for them. These people are being paid money to work for them, and if we get rid of them, then we get rid of a tonload of jobs, which hurts the economy.
Yes, it would hurt the economy. You know what would help the economy? Reducing medical costs that are going up at 3-8 times the inflation rate and that are costing ALL businesses more and more every year to cover their employees.

The number one reason cited for GM's, Ford's, and Chrysler's fiscal troubles? The rising cost of healthcare they have to pay for. Having Universal Healthcare reduces that burden on all businesses, helping the economy far, far more than those jobs that are lost.

Again, why are you even arguing about something that no one is even seriously discussing? No one is talking about eliminating insurance companies and moving to a single payer system, despite the absolute proof that nothing can reduce costs better than it.

Now through May 28th, the Louisville region is in desperate need of platelets - call the Red Cross if you are interested in donating!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 28th, 2009, 09:07 PM
Oh Yeah! I'm Here's Avatar
Oh Yeah! I'm Here Oh Yeah! I'm Here is offline
Midol, King of PMS
 
Join Date: March 25, 2007
Location: Stalking Aldin because he is awesome
Posts: 3,541
Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby! Oh Yeah! I'm Here rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Healthcare reform: a healthy debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschild View Post
Quote:
I am not saying it is good, and I hate insurance companies, but we have to realize that there are people in those insurance companies that work for them. These people are being paid money to work for them, and if we get rid of them, then we get rid of a tonload of jobs, which hurts the economy.
Yes, it would hurt the economy. You know what would help the economy? Reducing medical costs that are going up at 3-8 times the inflation rate and that are costing ALL businesses more and more every year to cover their employees.

The number one reason cited for GM's, Ford's, and Chrysler's fiscal troubles? The rising cost of healthcare they have to pay for. Having Universal Healthcare reduces that burden on all businesses, helping the economy far, far more than those jobs that are lost.

Again, why are you even arguing about something that no one is even seriously discussing? No one is talking about eliminating insurance companies and moving to a single payer system, despite the absolute proof that nothing can reduce costs better than it.
Just what I heard about healthcare, and again, this is an uneducated arguement, and I don't plan to go learn about it. I have too much to worry about besides this. I am out and done with this little conver-arguement.

I'm a F18, bro.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Off-Topic > General
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Debate Lists MegaSilver Competitive Armies Discussion 0 June 24th, 2009 12:14 PM
Christian Debate Q9 Kid General 14 February 3rd, 2009 01:59 PM
Flying Into a Castle with Healthy Door. #1MustangScaper Official Rules & FAQ's 30 March 28th, 2008 10:15 PM
Expansion debate gorillanator Official Units 15 May 17th, 2006 12:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:15 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.