Character Designs Without Figures

[Tornado]

Was so confused when I saw this thread as I had no memory of starting it.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I would just go with the new card approach and drop the unique hero line as well. In the case above, it looks like you are just drafting a special set of rules and an additional 'army' special power for your team. We could call them something like army upgrade cards and limit each army to one upgrade card per game. They of course would still have a points cost associated to them, so if you want to play a game with the army upgrade cost you can by drafting it, and if you don't you can just spend those points on other things normally.

I have been exploring similar ideas and approaches in my customs thread. Im calling them attachment cards. Some of them have point costs and can only be drafted to be played with certain units. I put them on a 2 in ×1.5 inch rectangular card. None of them have figures that represent them. They are not glyphs either. I did not want them to be used by enemy figures as they were drafted as part of the army total. I am doing more of these for units that have different types of gear. You guys should check it out because I think we have fell down the same rabbit hole.

[Tornado]

C3G has a whole cave system full of killer white rabbits.

[MrNobody]

I still bust out Alias Q-Tip's equipment cards and play with them on occasion, stuff like that is a lot of fun.

[johnny139]

This is the sort of thing I considered when brainstorming the Endless from Sandman - not really heroes, per see, but draftable... effects. Beings that influence the "story" (that is to say, the game) without being interactable.

I'll step back and say that that un-interactable units are BIG places to break a game. From MTG (the other game system I'm familiar with), the only thing like that is an Emblem, which are rare and take a lot of work to activate. With most units we design, there's a built in safety valve - you can kill them. Not so if they're not on the battlefield.

I think they would need Life, since that's a good way to build in an "interactivity" level. Like, for Master Weaver, give him X life, and whenever you activate Web of Life and Destiny, he receives a wound. It makes him finite - he can't just hang around indefinitely and have an effect on the game annoying your opponent.

So, with that in mind, I would keep the left box and stat box. Make them Heroes, just a new designation - I would say something like "ABSTRACT HERO" to steal the Marvel designation for their super high end characters.

I very much like the idea though and think it's worth exploring.

So essentially, like Event Heroes, a new ruleset:

- Abstract Heroes do not start on the battlefield and cannot be placed on the battlefield by any means.
- Abstract Heroes have a Move/Range/Attack/Defense of 0. (We can keep them on the card or do something else with the space, whatever works best.)
- Anything that refers to Heroes in an army or in play includes Abstract Heroes. You do not control an Abstract Hero (they are not on the battlefield).
- Order Markers can be placed and revealed as normal, but Abstract Heroes cannot move or attack.

That's a basic overview of how I'd picture it.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by johnny139

This is the sort of thing I considered when brainstorming the Endless from Sandman - not really heroes, per see, but draftable... effects. Beings that influence the "story" (that is to say, the game) without being interactable.

I'll step back and say that that un-interactable units are BIG places to break a game. From MTG (the other game system I'm familiar with), the only thing like that is an Emblem, which are rare and take a lot of work to activate. With most units we design, there's a built in safety valve - you can kill them. Not so if they're not on the battlefield.

I think they would need Life, since that's a good way to build in an "interactivity" level. Like, for Master Weaver, give him X life, and whenever you activate Web of Life and Destiny, he receives a wound. It makes him finite - he can't just hang around indefinitely and have an effect on the game annoying your opponent.

So, with that in mind, I would keep the left box and stat box. Make them Heroes, just a new designation - I would say something like "ABSTRACT HERO" to steal the Marvel designation for their super high end characters.

I very much like the idea though and think it's worth exploring.

Oh, I very much like the idea of Abstract Hero...

[MrNobody]

I like Abstract Hero! I also like giving them a life number. I can see powers coming along later on that can do damage to them, like when alt-universe Captain Marvel killed Death itself in Thanos Imperative. I think having them be finite in some way is a good design philosophy. Either having them only be able to use an effect so many times, or having them tied to a specific kill-able figure on the battlefield.

[johnny139]

Tying them to a figure is actually really brilliant - I could see a Death Abstract Hero that let's you choose an "Avatar," so you can draft her and give Thanos a boost. But when he's destroyed, she's also "destroyed." That sort of thing.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I like Abstract Hero! I also like giving them a life number. I can see powers coming along later on that can do damage to them, like when alt-universe Captain Marvel killed Death itself in Thanos Imperative. I think having them be finite in some way is a good design philosophy. Either having them only be able to use an effect so many times, or having them tied to a specific kill-able figure on the battlefield.

I don't think that's necessarily always necessary, but it's a good thing to bear in mind, certainly.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Tying them to a figure is actually really brilliant - I could see a Death Abstract Hero that let's you choose an "Avatar," so you can draft her and give Thanos a boost. But when he's destroyed, she's also "destroyed." That sort of thing.

Exactly what I had for Thoth.
He is tied to Satanus who essentially becomes Godzilla with spells.
Satanus dies and Thoth does as well. I have that posted somewhere.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Exactly what I had for Thoth.
He is tied to Satanus who essentially becomes Godzilla with spells.
Satanus dies and Thoth does as well. I have that posted somewhere.

I think there are loads of different ways these could work, and they don't all have to work the same way. I think this is a brilliant avenue of design space.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I think there are loads of different ways these could work, and they don't all have to work the same way. I think this is a brilliant avenue of design space.

Yeah I don't think every one of them needs to have one of those limitations, but it seems like maybe a soft rule about some sort of limitation could be a good idea.

Here's what I have for Khonshu.

NAME = KHONSHU
SECRET IDENTITY = NA

SPECIES = GOD
UNIQUENESS = ABSTRACT HERO
CLASS = PROTECTOR?
PERSONALITY = ???

SIZE/HEIGHT = ???

LIFE = ?

MOVE = ?
RANGE = ?
ATTACK = ?
DEFENSE = ?

PHASES OF THE MOON
You may draft any number of Marc Spector figures. No two Marc Spector figures in your army may share the same class. Choose which figure will start the game on the battlefield. You can control only one Marc Spector figure on the battlefield at a time. At the end of each round, you must switch the Marc Spector figure on the battlefield, if possible, with another Marc Spector figure you control. Switched figures will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

FROM THE DEAD
At the beginning of each round, before Order Markers are placed, if you do not control a Marc Spector figure on the battlefield, you must choose a Marc Spector figure in your army that is not destroyed, if possible. Place the chosen figure on any empty space in your start zone.

So he'd be tied to Moon Knight, and would allow you to play the different forms of Moon Knight like in the Ellis run. Obviously that would require creating some other Moon Knights first though. I could also see a 'protector of travelers in the night' power that gave a general boost to everybody.