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  #349  
Old April 13th, 2021, 10:31 AM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Okay, cool. Not 100% on if I want to go all the way down to 600 points as a power level, but we can tweak things if she doesn't feel thematically strong enough. Sounds like the general direction is a winner.
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  #350  
Old April 14th, 2021, 08:19 AM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Thinking about it, Aerial Advantage could be a good option for Mothra, she's very rarely on the ground from what I've seen.
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  #351  
Old April 14th, 2021, 10:20 AM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

I'm not actually that hot on Aerial Advantage as a power - I think it takes some of the fun out of positioning. Probably wouldn't spring for it on Mothra.
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  #352  
Old April 14th, 2021, 12:06 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Got a doozie. Sorry I'm coming in late with this. I'll do a cliff's notes below each one. I'm sure there's a lot that could be done to trim these down as well.

Quote:


The figure used for this unit is a ??? figure from the ??? set.
Its model name is ???.
NAME = SHOBIJIN
SECRET IDENTITY =

SPECIES = FAIRY
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = PRIESTESSES
PERSONALITY = EMPATHETIC

SIZE/HEIGHT = TINY 2

LIFE = 2

MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 1
DEFENSE = 3

POINTS = ?

MOTHRA’S SONG

When placing or removing blue Life Cycle markers on any Mothra Card in your army, you may add or remove one additional Life Cycle marker.

CALL TO MOTHRA
If a figure you control would be targeted for an attack, you may choose a Mothra you control. Move the chosen Mothra normally. If Mothra ends that move adjacent to the attacking figure, the attacking figure must target and attack that Mothra, if possible, and the chosen Mothra rolls 2 additional defense dice. When the Shobijin are destroyed, place them on the card of any Mothra in your army and add 2 to that Mothra’s attack. Figures moved with this special power will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

TINY STEALTH
The Shobijin are never in clear sight of non-adjacent enemy figures and only take leaving engagement attacks from tiny figures.
The Shobijin, as noted in the top-left speech bubble in the picture above, are the ones who direct Mothra to rescue others.
Mothra's concerns typically flow in the order of:
Shobijin>Easter Island>Everything Else.
The empathy of the twins taking on the plight of humanity is what often drives Mothra to protect others. Mothra may more efficiently defend them and others with the twins, less so when independent of them, and being more aggressive if the Shobijin were destroyed.
Their famous song can make a Mothra Larva hatch or develop in half the time.
They aren't apart very often at all, so I don't mind them being a multi-person Hero, Ant/Rat Swarm style. Not sure if Priestesses is the best wording, even though that is their role.
Quote:


The figure used for this unit is a ??? figure from the ??? set.
Its model name is ???.
NAME = MOTHRA EGG
TYPE = EVENT DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT

LIFE = ?
DEFENSE = ?

Height = ?

POINTS = ?

BIRTH OF MOTHRA

At the start of the game, you may place up to 2 Unique Mothra figures in your army on this card instead of on the battlefield. While there is a Unique Mothra on this card, you control the Mothra Egg, and may place and reveal Order Markers on those cards. Each time you reveal a numbered Order Marker, remove a blue Life Cycle marker from the card of one Unique Mothra figure on this card. After revealing a numbered Order Marker on the card of a Unique Mothra figure on this card, you may reveal the X Order Marker on that card. Remove the Mothra Egg from the game, and place any Unique Mothra on this card with no remaining Life Cycle markers on its card on or adjacent to the spaces previously occupied by the Mothra Egg.

UNDISTURBED NEST
The Mothra Egg cannot be targeted for any attacks or special powers on an opponent’s army card or glyph, unless it is the only figure you control. If you control an Event Mothra, and the Mothra Egg is moved or receives wounds by any figure’s attack or special power on its army card or glyph, you must place your Event Mothra adjacent to that figure, if possible, and inflict X wounds, where X is the number of wounds inflicted +1 additional wound.
Mothra's precious egg, which you dare not harm, even collaterally, lest you face an even worse punishment from Momma Mothra.

Allows the option of twin Larva. Can only hatch once per game. Can't get a the Larva before it's ready. And if one is ready, while the other is not, and you decide to hatch, you only get 1 Larva.

Quote:


The figure used for this unit is a ??? figure from the ??? set.
Its model name is ???.
NAME = MOTHRA
SECRET IDENTITY =

SPECIES = KAIJU
UNIQUENESS = UNCOMMON HERO
CLASS = GUARDIAN? DEITY? PROTECTOR?
PERSONALITY = BRAVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE

LIFE = ?

MOVE = ?
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = ?
DEFENSE = ?

POINTS = MANY

COCOON

Any Event Mothra in your army may start the game on its card instead of on the battlefield. Start the game with 4 Blue Life Cycle markers on this card. When this Unique Mothra is on the battlefield, each time you reveal a numbered Order Marker, place a Life Cycle marker on the card of this Unique Mothra figure. If 4 Life Cycle markers are on the card of this Unique Mothra, instead of taking a turn with this Unique Mothra, you may Cocoon. This Unique Mothra may not move or attack, and adds X to its defense number, where X is the number of Life Cycle Markers on this card to a maximum of +8. Before revealing your next Numbered Order Marker on this card, choose an Event Mothra that is not on the battlefield and remove any Wound Markers from its card. Place any unrevealed Order Markers from this card on that Event Mothra and remove this Unique Mothra from the game. Place the Event Mothra on the spaces previously occupied by this Unique Mothra. Previously destroyed Event Mothra figures may only be placed on the battlefield by this power once per game.

QUEEN OF THE MONSTERS
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, instead of taking a turn with this Mothra, you may take a turn with up to two different Kaiju Unique Heroes you control or one Kaiju Event Hero you control. This Mothra may be one of the Kaiju Heroes. Any Kaiju Hero that is taking a turn instead of this Mothra must be within 8 spaces of this Mothra before moving.

SILK STREAM SPECIAL ATTACK

Range 5. Attack 2.
When Mothra attacks a figure that is not a destructible object with this special attack, that figure cannot roll defense dice. If an opponent’s Unique or Event Hero receives at least one wound from Silk Stream Special Attack, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from that figure’s Army Card. After using Silk Stream Special Attack, you may move Mothra up to 3 spaces.

SUPER STRENGTH
A Larva starts the game at 4 Life Cycle markers. It can start the game on the battlefield ready to Cocoon, but the Cocoon will not be as strong.
If it begins in the egg, it must shed 4 to hatch, and then regain the minimum required 4 to Cocoon over the course of 4 numbered turns. Or 2 with Shobijin.

It's possible a larva could revive a previously destroyed Adult Mothra, but only once. It could also bring about one of Mothra's many other Adult forms, if we ever decide to do them.

I revamped Queen of the Monsters to reflect her behavior both when fighting alongside and against Godzilla.
She can team up with a fellow Larva against Godzilla, as in Mothra vs Godzilla, or she can convince Godzilla and Rodan to help her take down Ghidorah, as in Monster Zero. (I also imagine Showa/base-level Rodan as Unique Hero level)
A double Larva Silk OM removal can really tie up a monster. I threw in the movement after the Silk attack because of her pop-in, spray, pop-back technique seen in 1964. That detail is not completely necessary though.

Quote:

The figure used for this unit is a ??? figure from the ??? set.
Its model name is ???.

NAME = MOTHRA
SECRET IDENTITY =

SPECIES = KAIJU
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = GUARDIAN? DEITY? PROTECTOR?
PERSONALITY = MERCIFUL

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE

LIFE = 12

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = MANY

QUEEN OF THE MONSTERS
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this card, instead of taking a turn with this Mothra, you may take a turn with up to two different Kaiju Unique Heroes you control or one Kaiju Event Hero you control. This Mothra may be one of the Kaiju Heroes. Any Kaiju Hero that is taking a turn instead of this Mothra must be within 8 spaces of this Mothra before moving.

POISON SCALES SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 5.
Choose two spaces Mothra passed over this turn. All figures within 1 space of a chosen space are affected by this special attack. After a huge figure rolls defense dice against this special attack, you may remove an Order Marker at random from that figure's card. You may only use this special attack once per round.

REBIRTH OF MOTHRA
When Mothra would be destroyed, before removing this figure from the battlefield, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from this card and place them on any other card in your army that is in play.

STEALTH FLYING
When Mothra starts to fly, if she is engaged, she will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING
Reused my version of Queen of the Monsters. Kept Poison Scales and Stealth Flying.
I like keeping her Range at 1 so she doesn't just Kite Godzilla.

I went with Merciful instead of Benevolent, because even though she's not villainous, she puts her own priorities above the rest of Humanity, and is Merciful thanks to the Shobijin.
I'm not sure what's best, Protector, Guardian or Deity. My instinct was Deity.
Gamera is Guardian of the Universe, but not a god. King Kong is a Protector of the people of Skull Island, but not a god.
Megalon is a Guardian/Protector of Seatopia, I don't think a god though.
Manda, I've seen referred to as a Deity, but not sure how accurate that is, and I would go more with Guardian. King Caesar, kind of a God/Guardian combo.
If I had a hierarchy, I'd make it:
Mothra>Caesar>Manda>Megalon
And out of all of them, Mothra protects the whole Earth sometimes, and seemingly can't be fully killed. I think to distinguish her above more "Local Guardians," I would go Deity. Being a full blown Diety is what puts her in the league of Godzilla and Ghidorah.

Rebirth of Mothra allows you to make a Larva hatch. And if you have no Egg, you can put those Order Markers on anything else in her army. Because sometimes, the best thing she can do is put her spirit into one of her fellow Kaiju.
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  #353  
Old April 14th, 2021, 08:28 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Cool stuff, toyhandle! Gonna share my thoughts starting from the Imago form and working backwards. (Mostly my thoughts on the Shobijin and the Egg just follow from my thoughts on the Imago/Larva)

Mothra (Imago)
I'm a little iffy on Deity as a class in general, but it's in the toolbox, so what the hey. Agreed that it's a solid fit on Mothra.

Personally I don't like her being Kaiju Professor X. That version of QotM does really evoke Ghidorah so it doesn't doesn't feel wrong, but it's not must-have either, and I think it really pigeonholes her, in terms of army builds. That was something my first draft got flak for, admittedly, but I think this one hits the all-Kaiju-huge-game-exclusivity way harder; Mothra's like the Superman or Batman of her universe and I really want her to be someone I can team up with other icons, y'know?

I thought about doing Rebirth stuff but deliberately avoided it for basically the same reason: I wanted to keep the Imago form as self-contained/crossover-friendly as possible, and leave the life cycle stuff up to larva/egg cards to carry.

Mothra (Larva)
I think you're hitting all the right theme notes in this write-up, but the implementation of the Coccoon is really involved. I'd simplify way down to:

Quote:
COCOON
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, Mothra may Coccoon. For this round, Mothra cannot move, cannot attack, cannot use its Kaiju Coordination special power and adds {#} to its Defense number. At the end of the round, if this Mothra is not destroyed, replace it with a previously destroyed Event Mothra you control. Remove all Wound Markers from that Event Mothra's Army Card.
I think the cocoon taking a little time feels more thematic, and having the window where it can be attacked counter-balances the ability to keep spawning Imago Mothra into the game.

I also probably wouldn't go full-on Queen of the Monsters on the Larva form; irrespective of what that power ends up looking like, I think it cheapens it a little if the Larva also get it. I want that Mothra transformation to feel like a big deal.

I do like having bonding on the Larva though. I'd just definitely give them a separate (probably simpler) power. Something more on the level of like:

Quote:
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Mothra, you may take a turn with any other Mothra you control, or a Kaiju you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Mothra. You may not take additional turns.
On the SA, I don't think it feels right for the Silk to be cutting through defense - I don't think of it as something that actually really does damage ever. (At least against the other monsters) I might not even implement it as an attack. Probably just a "choose a figure and roll a d20" style thing. It'd be cool if it had some lasting effect for the rest of your player turn that the bonding power could exploit. It'd give you an incentive to have them running around and actually doing stuff instead of just being Mothra resurrection batteries.

Mothra Egg
I was really debating the other day whether or not the egg deserved its own card; psyched to see someone else is this crazy too.

Like with the Larva, though, I'm a little leery of the complexity of the Life Cycle Marker stuff. And I'm not sure there's really a benefit to having anything hatch out of the Egg at present. It's just delaying the arrival of key figures to the game. I'd:
-keep the general concept of Undisturbed Nest
-let the Egg start wherever on the battlefield
-do like a The Drop style mechanic where eventually it just hatches. Maybe have the odds ratchet up over time.

That way you're at least getting a free deploy out of it.

Mechanically I don't think the "you control the Egg" stuff is important. I'd make sure to clarify that the Larvae occupy the Egg though - occupied DOs get some exemptions from auto-destroy stuff.

Shobijin
I like the concept of them helping Mothra integrate with more figures. I wouldn't do the attack boost thing, though - I worry that it incentivizes getting them killed. (And again, I'd really ditch the Life Cycle Markers)
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  #354  
Old April 15th, 2021, 05:47 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Awesome, awesome awesome.

Quote:
Personally I don't like her being Kaiju Professor X. That version of QotM does really evoke Ghidorah so it doesn't doesn't feel wrong, but it's not must-have either, and I think it really pigeonholes her, in terms of army builds. That was something my first draft got flak for, admittedly, but I think this one hits the all-Kaiju-huge-game-exclusivity way harder; Mothra's like the Superman or Batman of her universe and I really want her to be someone I can team up with other icons, y'know?

I thought about doing Rebirth stuff but deliberately avoided it for basically the same reason: I wanted to keep the Imago form as self-contained/crossover-friendly as possible, and leave the life cycle stuff up to larva/egg cards to carry.
The Rebirth of Mothra can use a name change, but the power on Imago is just Batman’s Contingency plan, so her Order Markers can go to any figure you want. Should be nice and self contained/crossover friendly in that regard. That, with her possibility of returning makes her more active/frontline than Prof X at least.

Quote:
COCOON
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, Mothra may Coccoon. For this round, Mothra cannot move, cannot attack, cannot use its Kaiju Coordination special power and adds {#} to its Defense number. At the end of the round, if this Mothra is not destroyed, replace it with a previously destroyed Event Mothra you control. Remove all Wound Markers from that Event Mothra's Army Card.
I think the cocoon taking a little time feels more thematic, and having the window where it can be attacked counter-balances the ability to keep spawning Imago Mothra into the game.
Thank you for shaving it down. That looks much better. Though it does force you to have a Destroyed Imago with no option of waiting to bring her out later. Possibly Imgao may have something somewhere stating she may start the game off the battlefield, and Cocoon just switches in an Event Mothra on its card, removing any wound markers that may be on it? Not sure you'd want to save her for later, but it fits with her original film, and is kind of Raiden-y

Quote:
I do like having bonding on the Larva though. I'd just definitely give them a separate (probably simpler) power. Something more on the level of like:

Quote:
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Mothra, you may take a turn with any other Mothra you control, or a Kaiju you control within 6 clear sight spaces of Mothra. You may not take additional turns.
Awesome! I was trying to avoid turns with Godzilla+1 since he’s so devastating, but limiting the bond to just 1 Larva mitigates that.

Quote:
On the SA, I don't think it feels right for the Silk to be cutting through defense - I don't think of it as something that actually really does damage ever. (At least against the other monsters) I might not even implement it as an attack. Probably just a "choose a figure and roll a d20" style thing. It'd be cool if it had some lasting effect for the rest of your player turn that the bonding power could exploit. It'd give you an incentive to have them running around and actually doing stuff instead of just being Mothra resurrection batteries.
Yeah, I wasn’t too sure about the damage thing. It did defeat Godzilla though. I thought about how wrapped up he was, he might have suffocated if he didn’t drop into the ocean. But also, the force of the impact from something that huge jetting out a stream might kill something smaller. In King of the Monsters, the Larva kills/seriously injures a few soldiers with it.
Here’s a variation of Impact Webbing that injures small/med figures.

SILK STREAM
Start the game with 3 white Webbing Markers on this card. After moving, and before attacking with this figure, you may choose a figure within 5 clear sight spaces. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, and the targeted figure is Medium or Small, that figure receives a wound, and if it is a Unique or Event Hero, you may place a Web Marker on its card. Before taking a turn with a Unique or Event Hero with one or more Webbing Marker placed on its card by this special power, that player must roll the 20-sided die. If that player rolls 1-12, that figure may not move, subtracting 1 from the roll for each Web Marker on its card. If that player rolls 13 or higher, return all Webbing Markers placed on its card by this special to cards with the Silk Stream special power.

Quote:
Mothra Egg
I was really debating the other day whether or not the egg deserved its own card; psyched to see someone else is this crazy too.

Like with the Larva, though, I'm a little leery of the complexity of the Life Cycle Marker stuff. And I'm not sure there's really a benefit to having anything hatch out of the Egg at present. It's just delaying the arrival of key figures to the game. I'd:
-keep the general concept of Undisturbed Nest
-let the Egg start wherever on the battlefield
-do like a The Drop style mechanic where eventually it just hatches. Maybe have the odds ratchet up over time.

That way you're at least getting a free deploy out of it.

Mechanically I don't think the "you control the Egg" stuff is important. I'd make sure to clarify that the Larvae occupy the Egg though - occupied DOs get some exemptions from auto-destroy stuff.
That’s awesome. Really like it starting anywhere, and The Drop mechanic.

REBIRTH OF MOTHRA
You may start the game with up to 2 Unique Mothra on this card. Destroyed Unique Mothra may be placed on this card.No more than two Unique Mothra may be placed on this card at any time. If there is a Unique Mothra on this card, at the start of every round, roll the 20 sided die. If you roll # or higher, remove the Mothra Egg from the game and place any Unique Mothra on this card on or adjacent to any space previously occupied by the Mothra Egg.

Quote:
Shobijin
I like the concept of them helping Mothra integrate with more figures. I wouldn't do the attack boost thing, though - I worry that it incentivizes getting them killed. (And again, I'd really ditch the Life Cycle Markers)
Agreed on the Attack Boost and Life Cycle markers. How about they increase your roll for the Egg Hatch? And maybe extra defense for a Cocooned Larva?


On a related note, check out what was announced today!


Coming out Q421/Q122. Kind of pricy at $85 per set of 4, but that's pretty comparable to the asking price of any figures we're already looking at.

They list Godzilla as 4.5in tall, making him a bit taller than the Heroclix Giganto whale figure.
There's no shots of them all standing together, but you can get an idea of how they size against one another.


The Showa era Kaiju were smaller than the Heisei kaiju. This shows how 90's King G and Godzilla stack up against Rodan, Anguirus and Gigan.

I think the Playmates/Bandai Godzilla, Destroyah, King G figures could look pretty good relative to scale with these upcoming figures.

These figures might be a chance to do some fun Showa centric versions of the characters, like a sillier Godzilla. I also don't think we'll get Gorosaurus any other way either.

One shame is that the King Caesar figure I nabbed will be way out of scale with these, but I have a feeling these will be very popular, and we'll likely see a huge range of monsters coming out of this, including him, and others like Titanosaurus.

Last edited by toyhandle; April 15th, 2021 at 06:50 PM.
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  #355  
Old April 15th, 2021, 09:05 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Oh, that figure line is cool - might provide some more figure options for some of the ones that are supposed to be a little smaller.

More thoughts on the designs later! (Maybe tomorrow) Trying to knock out some playtests tonight.
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  #356  
Old April 15th, 2021, 09:36 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Godzilla finally proved vincible with Ericth74's X-Men taking him down for a clean kill tonight. He's still in the tourney, though. Figured I'd toss that in here as Godzilla-relevant news.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #357  
Old April 16th, 2021, 03:02 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Thought about it, and you're right, Mothra Imago doesn't need bonding. Being a leader/team player is more of a Larva thing.

I might go for:
QUEEN OF THE MONSTERS
Add 1 to Mothra's Attack number for each figure in your army with wounds on its card and each destroyed Destructible Object, up to a maximum of +#

Going for that aspect of her that protects life on Earth, including trees, but also avoids wanton destruction when possible. Might compel Godzilla to be less destructive, until later in the game when it no longer matters.
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  #358  
Old April 16th, 2021, 05:57 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

Imago
Hmm, fair point on the Rebirth power having generalist applications - there definitely is something thematic in having a Mothra who's always ready to make the ultimate sacrifice.

I could get behind that take on QotM.

Larva
The main reason I didn't try to do a "you may start the game with a Mothra Imago off the battlefield" type effect was that I just wasn't sure anyone would bother to take that option? Like if you have the choice between either running her out once and letting her die, then bringing her back, or just never getting that first run, you're gonna take the first run, right?

So we'd need to have something to incentivize holding off instead. But I didn't really want to push players toward just holding Mothra back and strictly building egg -> larva -> coccoon -> imago every game, because that "parent Mothra goes down early and gets replaced by its offspring" arc does feel really iconic to me. And on top of that, doing more to try to make "hold Mothra back" a viable option is inherently gonna add complexity.

One thought I had on this front was that we could maybe go the route of a Mothra Leo card to be like the "Mothra that really wants to join the game late" version of Mothra?

I dig that reworked approach to Silk Stream. Wounding smaller figures but obstructing big ones feels right.
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  #359  
Old April 16th, 2021, 05:59 PM
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Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death! Ronin is hot lava death!
Re: Godzilla and friends

I picked up a Bandai Mothra and like the scale next to our other monsters.



Wings are of course enormous, but the footprint of the body is a reasonable size (about two hexes long). May need a flight stand or something to make it work on the battlefield.
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Old April 16th, 2021, 06:14 PM
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Re: Godzilla and friends

So jealous.
How much was it?
Amazon?
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