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  #181  
Old July 3rd, 2020, 06:24 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

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Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
As for #2... Well, you're a good player, so it checks out! But seriously, that's the most important thing one can do to improve. What happened, why did it happen, what should I have done differently to make this thing happen better, etc. I try to find at least one-two mistakes in every game I play, win or lose. The big thing to remember is to not overanalyze during the game and go on tilt- a lot of people have that problem ("Oh, I screwed that up", and then they focus on that mistake, causing them to make more mistakes, which they then reflect on, which leads to more mistakes...) The best thing you can do during the game is say, "I messed that up", and then move on as if it's an entirely fresh game with the current board state as the start of the "new game".
That's a good point about not over-analyzing in the middle of the game. I have done that before.


I think I am a decent competitive player; I've made day two 50% or more of the times I've gone to GenCon and even made it to the second round once. I've usually lost to really good players (Matthias once, dok once or twice); against dok I came really close to winning to go on to Semis.


But. With that said, while I do usually assess my losses to try to figure out what I could have done differently, I don't usually feel very confident that I am drawing the *right* conclusions. There's definitely so much more for me to learn.

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  #182  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:00 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
But. With that said, while I do usually assess my losses to try to figure out what I could have done differently, I don't usually feel very confident that I am drawing the *right* conclusions. There's definitely so much more for me to learn.
I've been pondering a similar question for the last few months in regards to the podcast: how does someone know if their takeaway is the correct takeaway?

For example, I won a game a few GenCons back, and my opponent said afterwords: "Figure A should have gone after Figure X, not Figure Y." The truth of the matter was that they lost when they started with Figure A, rather than Figure B. (Units and names omitted for anonymity)

There are really three basic groupings of plays: good plays, bad plays, and debatable risks. Less experienced players tend to make more bad plays under the notion that it is a worthwhile risk. They usually fail to see that the tremendous downside outweighs the possible mild upside.

Someone like InfectedSloth is the opposite. He tends to take less risks than most people would. I've learned a lot about cautious and patient play by watching him. It also makes his occasional aggressive risk that much more surprising and effective, as it isn't his normal approach to the game.

I don't know if this is helping at all, but I guess my advice is to just try to "see ahead" in the game. Think about what happened and why it happened. What were the possible outcomes of the play?

I always go back to the time I killed my opponent's MBS on height with one attack up from a Heavy. The MBS ran to height for a good shot, but was nowhere close to the Roman screen. The potential upside of the play wasn't that high: he kills a Heavy. The potential downside is tremendous: he loses MBS in a matchup where having a little range (and an extra bonding hero) is valuable.
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  #183  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:02 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

I guess it's just a little weird to talk about individual units in RtW, rather than armies. Sometimes 1x Rats is the answer, sometimes Tarn is. You can pretty much bring any figure now, and I think the makeup of the army, and how well its pieces work together to accomplish its goal, is a lot more important than any single piece in the build.
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  #184  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:09 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
But. With that said, while I do usually assess my losses to try to figure out what I could have done differently, I don't usually feel very confident that I am drawing the *right* conclusions. There's definitely so much more for me to learn.
I've been pondering a similar question for the last few months in regards to the podcast: how does someone know if their takeaway is the correct takeaway?

For example, I won a game a few GenCons back, and my opponent said afterwords: "Figure A should have gone after Figure X, not Figure Y." The truth of the matter was that they lost when they started with Figure A, rather than Figure B. (Units and names omitted for anonymity)

There are really three basic groupings of plays: good plays, bad plays, and debatable risks. Less experienced players tend to make more bad plays under the notion that it is a worthwhile risk. They usually fail to see that the tremendous downside outweighs the possible mild upside.

Someone like InfectedSloth is the opposite. He tends to take less risks than most people would. I've learned a lot about cautious and patient play by watching him. It also makes his occasional aggressive risk that much more surprising and effective, as it isn't his normal approach to the game.

I don't know if this is helping at all, but I guess my advice is to just try to "see ahead" in the game. Think about what happened and why it happened. What were the possible outcomes of the play?

I always go back to the time I killed my opponent's MBS on height with one attack up from a Heavy. The MBS ran to height for a good shot, but was nowhere close to the Roman screen. The potential upside of the play wasn't that high: he kills a Heavy. The potential downside is tremendous: he loses MBS in a matchup where having a little range (and an extra bonding hero) is valuable.
Good points, thanks.


Spoiler Alert!

Formerly known as capsocrates
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  #185  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:18 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
But. With that said, while I do usually assess my losses to try to figure out what I could have done differently, I don't usually feel very confident that I am drawing the *right* conclusions. There's definitely so much more for me to learn.
I've been pondering a similar question for the last few months in regards to the podcast: how does someone know if their takeaway is the correct takeaway?

For example, I won a game a few GenCons back, and my opponent said afterwords: "Figure A should have gone after Figure X, not Figure Y." The truth of the matter was that they lost when they started with Figure A, rather than Figure B. (Units and names omitted for anonymity)

There are really three basic groupings of plays: good plays, bad plays, and debatable risks. Less experienced players tend to make more bad plays under the notion that it is a worthwhile risk. They usually fail to see that the tremendous downside outweighs the possible mild upside.

Someone like InfectedSloth is the opposite. He tends to take less risks than most people would. I've learned a lot about cautious and patient play by watching him. It also makes his occasional aggressive risk that much more surprising and effective, as it isn't his normal approach to the game.

I don't know if this is helping at all, but I guess my advice is to just try to "see ahead" in the game. Think about what happened and why it happened. What were the possible outcomes of the play?

I always go back to the time I killed my opponent's MBS on height with one attack up from a Heavy. The MBS ran to height for a good shot, but was nowhere close to the Roman screen. The potential upside of the play wasn't that high: he kills a Heavy. The potential downside is tremendous: he loses MBS in a matchup where having a little range (and an extra bonding hero) is valuable.
Good points, thanks.


Spoiler Alert!
If that's the sort of analysis you're pulling from your games, there's not much more I can say! That's exactly what you should be looking at.

Not opening with Brute Gruts definitely makes sense, as they're a shark: you want to keep investing those OMs once you start (at least for a little while).

It's tougher to judge the Kursus play, but it's important to remember that you don't need to "big-brain" everything. The simple plays are good for a reason. If my best play is to sit there and WtF with 4th, and you can't stop me from doing it, I should never stop doing it.

I learned a lot about this from the best X-Wing podcast regarding a ship that had a really obvious flight option: "So what your opponent knows you're going to do it? They can't stop it. It's obvious because it's good."
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  #186  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:18 AM
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Post Game

Yeah, I have found I'm usually pretty good about before and during the game figuring out what matchups I want to make happen which is why I probably do really well with the splash armies (I know Q23 has on more than one occasion been a bit surprised how I played his builds and both times I beat him). I've found my most common mistakes are related to either placement or an unnecessary risk. I've gotten a lot better at risk assessment, but I do think that's one of my weaker points as I can think of several games where I played much more risky than I should've and it cost me the game (although my last game against vegie I made the opposite mistake).

~Dysole, finding that for her watching and discussing with players better than her was one of the best ways she honed all her skills
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  #187  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:27 AM
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Re: Post Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
Yeah, I have found I'm usually pretty good about before and during the game figuring out what matchups I want to make happen which is why I probably do really well with the splash armies (I know Q23 has on more than one occasion been a bit surprised how I played his builds and both times I beat him). I've found my most common mistakes are related to either placement or an unnecessary risk. I've gotten a lot better at risk assessment, but I do think that's one of my weaker points as I can think of several games where I played much more risky than I should've and it cost me the game (although my last game against vegie I made the opposite mistake).

~Dysole, finding that for her watching and discussing with players better than her was one of the best ways she honed all her skills
Lol, I remember messaging Matthias back in the day after losing to 4th with Heavies twice in a tourney. Luckily, there will always be better players than me, so I'll never stop learning.
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  #188  
Old July 6th, 2020, 02:36 AM
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Re: Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
If I'm splashing 1x Vippers why am I not splashing 1x Rats?

I really liked fomox's Armoc Vipers x2 and Mittens in 2017 (I think). The rest of the army is interesting for different reasons, but I like that as an offensive splash (although probably a bit expensive as a splash but maybe in a bigger build) since it is very fast and has enough staying power to actually be able to do some real offensive damage.

~Dysole, who did really like IS's build from last year
Well, it’s hard to argue against the rats, I think they’re the best unit in the game. But I like Venocs x1 for the fact that you can perpetually threaten 3 attacks of 3 at 14 move away, and that’s a cool thing to fill an army with. I’m not claiming everyone should be doing it, but it’s an option I really like for a filler. Sometimes being able to get an attack or two of 3 dice at a particular figure is really big.

I don’t think I’d splash Deathchasers, but I’ve also never done/seen it. Battle Rush is nice, but after that they’re still only 5 move and 2 defense. That just seems too worrisome to me to splash. Maybe in an orc build where you’re pseudo bonding with Nerak, probably not in a Roman build where you’re pseudo bonding with MBS. I think you need to invest in Raelin and/or Nerak with the Deathchasers, and preferably at least one more hero for them to bond with.

Also I don’t really look at the game competitively in terms of RtW. RtW is fun, I like brainstorming and discussing armies for it and I’m not against it at GC or elsewhere, it brings very interesting armies and the current meta for it is neat. But I don’t think you can really look at the game competitively for in terms of RtW, there’s so many things that throw off the value of units. You can say things for a known meta like GC, but I don’t really understand a vacuum RtW competitive ranking.

Edit: Also I think a lot of the time when people try to analyze the game competitively assuming RtW is the norm (not talking about theorizing for an upcoming tournament, talking about when RtW mindset spills into discussion around the regular rankings), they’re already assuming a regular rankings list to be true. So it’s kind of paradoxical.
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  #189  
Old July 6th, 2020, 07:55 PM
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Re: Post Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post

Lol, I remember messaging Matthias back in the day after losing to 4th with Heavies twice in a tourney. Luckily, there will always be better players than me, so I'll never stop learning.
What happens when there's not better players than you?

Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G

Last edited by Matthias Maccabeus; July 6th, 2020 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Asking for a friend
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  #190  
Old July 6th, 2020, 07:56 PM
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Re: Post Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post

Lol, I remember messaging Matthias back in the day after losing to 4th with Heavies twice in a tourney. Luckily, there will always be better players than me, so I'll never stop learning.
What happens when there's not better players than you?
You finally win a main event after scrubbing out in the finals three times.

Last edited by OEAO; July 6th, 2020 at 07:57 PM. Reason: PEW PEW!
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  #191  
Old July 6th, 2020, 08:10 PM
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Re: Post Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post

Lol, I remember messaging Matthias back in the day after losing to 4th with Heavies twice in a tourney. Luckily, there will always be better players than me, so I'll never stop learning.
What happens when there's not better players than you?
You finally win a main event after scrubbing out in the finals three times.
Whew,

It was getting monotonous pming myself all the time and then answering it.

Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G

Last edited by Matthias Maccabeus; July 6th, 2020 at 08:11 PM. Reason: It was always good advice, even the Hatamoto thing...
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  #192  
Old July 8th, 2020, 06:59 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

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