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Official Rules & FAQ's Compilation and discussion of official HeroScape Rules and Frequently Asked Questions. **Special attacks never receive any bonuses.**


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  #10021  
Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:15 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Thanks!

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  #10022  
Old February 5th, 2016, 01:35 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy the Clown View Post
If Player 1's Werewolf Lord infects Player 2's Sir Hawthorne with Lycanthropy, and then takes a turn with Hawthorne via Moon Frenzy, should a Stab in the Back roll be performed? If so, by which player (Player 1 after taking the turn via Moon Frenzy, or Player 2 after control of Hawthorne is returned)?
Here's how I'd play it:

WL Moon Frenzies Sir H, takes the turn and then rolls Stab in the Back. On a "1", before Sir H is returned to his owner via Moon Frenzy, Sir H is given to the opponent of the WL owner's choice, losing his OMs as he goes. After he is given to that opponent, he returns to the original owner at the conclusion of Moon Frenzy.
Necro, but this seems wrong to me. It doesn't look like the slightly different wordings of the triggers for SitB and Moon Frenzy came into play here.

Relevant powers (emphasis added to what seem like the key texts):
Stab In the Back
After you take a turn with Sir Hawthorne, you must roll the 20‑sided die. If you roll a 1, choose an opponent. That opponent now controls Sir Hawthorne. Remove any order markers on this Army Card, then give the card to that opponent.

Moon Frenzy
After revealing an order marker on this Werefolf Lord, before taking this Werewolf Lord's turn, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may first take a turn with any Hybrid Hero in play. If you take a turn with an opponent's Hybrid Hero, you control that hero for the duration of its turn. At the end of its turn, control of the Hybrid Hero returns to its previous owner. All order markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.
To me, "at the end of [a] turn" should happen before "after you take a turn". So the sequence goes:
  • WWL hits his moon frenzy
  • WWL owner takes a turn with Sir Hawthorne
  • WWL returns control of Sir Hawthorne to his original owner at the end of Sir Hawthorne's turn, per Moon Frenzy
  • Sir Hawthorne's turn is now over
  • It is now "after" Sir Hawthorne's turn, so we have reached the juncture for Stab in the Back... but the controlling player did not take the turn. Therefore, the controlling player does not meet the condition for rolling for SitB. Since only a controlling player can use the power on the card, nobody rolls for Stab in the Back.

I realize that this is an odd ruling... but really, any ruling here is going to be kind of odd in one way or another. I think appreciating the distinction between "at the end of [a] turn" and "after taking a turn" makes as much sense as anything else.

(FWIW, thematically, this seems perfectly reasonable. Hawthorne just got taken over by a feral rage and doesn't even remember doing what he just did. He doesn't remember the turn he just took, so why would he stop to consider betrayal now?)
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  #10023  
Old February 5th, 2016, 02:12 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Roll a D20. That's what I'd do at home, Gencon, or in between. Seriously, whether "at the end of [a] turn" or "after you take a turn" taking place first as well as the theme of moon frenzy vs. stab in the back from a character analysis standpoint are so debatable that I think a D20 is the only thing that we can maybe agree on. Unless we get one of the old to come out of hiding to post a ruling here, then i'd accept it.
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  #10024  
Old February 5th, 2016, 02:15 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Heh - two different ways to say the same thing. Hawthorne ends up with the original owner after a Moon Frenzy

~Aldin, thinking dok's either bored or trying to work out a precedent for a custom

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  #10025  
Old February 5th, 2016, 02:22 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
Heh - two different ways to say the same thing. Hawthorne ends up with the original owner after a Moon Frenzy
It still matters for the purposes of OM removal, or in a multiplayer game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
~Aldin, thinking dok's either bored or trying to work out a precedent for a custom
Does it have to be one or the other?

(Even if you couldn't look at private forums, a relevant custom with Stab in the Back is viewable in public. But the ruling is identical for Hawthorne.)
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  #10026  
Old February 5th, 2016, 02:30 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

I agree with dok.

Stab in the back is all about permanent Control. It's referring to the permanent controller (owner) of the card. If he stabs YOU in the back, your opponent then becomes the permanent controller of the card.

Stab in the back says: Before YOU take a turn with Sir Hawthorne. YOU refers to the owner/controller of the card. It doesn't refer to someone who temporarily gains control of the card (via Moon Frenzy). This is why Moon Frenzy says: "If you take a turn with an opponent's Hybrid Hero, you control that hero for the duration of its turn." This designates you as controller ONLY for the duration of it's turn. "At the end of its turn, control of the Hybrid Hero returns to its previous owner." At which point that controller looks at Stab in the back and says: "Did I (the permanent controller) take a turn with Sir Hawthorne? No. Then I don't have to roll for Stab in the Back.

Stab in the back never once refers to the temporarily controlling player.

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  #10027  
Old February 6th, 2016, 11:16 AM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

I also agree with dok. It makes sense mechanically as well as thematically.

However, I agree with lefton4ya that if players cannot agree on an interpretation, to just roll the d20. (It's more fun to play than argue over how to play)

I'd love to tell you guys that this was covered in the check listing and discussed and that we all agreed how it would work, but I really do not recall anymore.

I do know that when the guys (truth, Grungebob, theguru) used "at the end of a turn" instead of "after taking a turn" that it was intentional, so I believe it is correct to interpret these events as happening at slightly different points.

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Last edited by R˙chean; February 6th, 2016 at 05:33 PM.
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  #10028  
Old February 6th, 2016, 05:12 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Yes. I also concur. "At the end of a turn" is still within the turn's purview. "After taking a turn" doesn't trigger until the turn (and all events associated with the turn) have completed.

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  #10029  
Old February 6th, 2016, 11:54 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

So...I'm new to Virtual Scape...but I've gotten a pretty good hang on making the maps. Now...I've gotten to the point where I could print my map...but that's not the issue. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to convert my map instructions to a pdf so that i can save it and share it here on heroscapers.com and/or send it to others via email etc. I have Adobe Reader X for pdf files and you're supposed to be able to convert files into pdf's but it won't let me do it with the file from virtualscape. HELP?
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  #10030  
Old February 7th, 2016, 03:42 AM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

@adoney Second time in a row I'm posting this thread (at least it's not self spamming ): How to share your maps with the world. What the thread doesn't mention is that if you are not a Site Supporter or a Contributor and don't want to (although I encourage you to become a site supporter) you can upload both the PDF download and map image to a place like Google Docs or Skydrive and still link on this site.
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  #10031  
Old February 7th, 2016, 11:56 AM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adoney View Post
So...I'm new to Virtual Scape...but I've gotten a pretty good hang on making the maps. Now...I've gotten to the point where I could print my map...but that's not the issue. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to convert my map instructions to a pdf so that i can save it and share it here on heroscapers.com and/or send it to others via email etc. I have Adobe Reader X for pdf files and you're supposed to be able to convert files into pdf's but it won't let me do it with the file from virtualscape. HELP?
You could just share the Virtualscape file on mediafire or other website via download link. There is really no reason to have to make a pdf for it. I would also just save a pic of the map and post it with the link so people know what they are wanting to download. Also I would put the required sets on there so people know what they are getting into tile-wise. Have fun.
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  #10032  
Old February 7th, 2016, 04:40 PM
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Re: Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

That's great! Thank you so much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
@adoney Second time in a row I'm posting this thread (at least it's not self spamming ): How to share your maps with the world. What the thread doesn't mention is that if you are not a Site Supporter or a Contributor and don't want to (although I encourage you to become a site supporter) you can upload both the PDF download and map image to a place like Google Docs or Skydrive and still link on this site.
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