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  #97  
Old July 9th, 2010, 08:48 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

So this term immediately... It can be used to change where a dividing Marro divides? I like that. You can also knock Microcorp Agents off height, "Hide in Darkness" users out of shadows, and all small/mediums out of Raelin. Just to throw some more ideas on to the board.

I also noticed that it works with both his special and normal attack, so you could potentially throw 3 figures from position. Very cool.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitar View Post
And yet you don't get Tough for rolling 0.

So, which is it? If Shurrak whiffs on Venocs are they still knocked back?
There are 2 different kinds of rolling 0 dice.
1. Zelrig and similar abilities. When these destroy all your dice, you still get defensive abilities because you are still taking your "roll phase".
2. Me-Burq-Sa's Stare (and others?). This ability removes your "roll phase" and you lose all other defensive abilities.

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Last edited by GreenLanturn; July 9th, 2010 at 08:54 PM.
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  #98  
Old July 9th, 2010, 08:53 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Sounds like this is what you do with Shurrok against a spaced out Rat Screen. Move in between two rats, take one Passing Swipe and remain adjacent to the other rat. Attack that one with Sweeping Sword, having a good chance to kill the rat and also preventing Scatter. If the rat dies, then you've put a hole in the screen. If the rat didn't die, you still have a chance to knock the rat away, still putting a hole in the screen. In either case, unless you trigger scatter later or your opponent has OMs on the rats, you've got a pretty good chance of moving Shurrak further in towards your opponent's core figures.


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  #99  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:12 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xraine69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majai of Dreams View Post
So knockback reads "when the figure rolls defense die and is not destroyed." What if the figure is a Venoc Viper and technically rolls 0 dice. Is it immune to knockback?
Or is rolling 0 dice still considered rolling dice?

I know the vipers are not the best example, because odds are with 5 die rolled against them, they will not survive to be knocked away anyway...

But if a future hero is released with 0 defense, that may be a factor.
Rolling 0 is still rolling.
And yet you don't get Tough for rolling 0.


So, which is it? If Shurrak whiffs on Venocs are they still knocked back?
The only time you don't get tough, is against a special attack. If there was an ability that reduced a Gorillinator's defense to 0 and was not a special attack, you would still get Tough. The viper stil gets knockedback if Shurrak whiffs. Rolling 0 dice, is still rolling the dice.

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  #100  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:15 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by xraine69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xraine69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majai of Dreams View Post
So knockback reads "when the figure rolls defense die and is not destroyed." What if the figure is a Venoc Viper and technically rolls 0 dice. Is it immune to knockback?
Or is rolling 0 dice still considered rolling dice?

I know the vipers are not the best example, because odds are with 5 die rolled against them, they will not survive to be knocked away anyway...

But if a future hero is released with 0 defense, that may be a factor.
Rolling 0 is still rolling.
And yet you don't get Tough for rolling 0.


So, which is it? If Shurrak whiffs on Venocs are they still knocked back?
The only time you don't get tough, is against a special attack. If there was an ability that reduced a Gorillinator's defense to 0 and was not a special attack, you would still get Tough. The viper stil gets knockedback if Shurrak whiffs. Rolling 0 dice, is still rolling the dice.
Yep.
Also, This is actually relevant now, with the Goblins Mob Attack power.

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  #101  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fencerjared View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xraine69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anitar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xraine69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majai of Dreams View Post
So knockback reads "when the figure rolls defense die and is not destroyed." What if the figure is a Venoc Viper and technically rolls 0 dice. Is it immune to knockback?
Or is rolling 0 dice still considered rolling dice?

I know the vipers are not the best example, because odds are with 5 die rolled against them, they will not survive to be knocked away anyway...

But if a future hero is released with 0 defense, that may be a factor.
Rolling 0 is still rolling.
And yet you don't get Tough for rolling 0.


So, which is it? If Shurrak whiffs on Venocs are they still knocked back?
The only time you don't get tough, is against a special attack. If there was an ability that reduced a Gorillinator's defense to 0 and was not a special attack, you would still get Tough. The viper stil gets knockedback if Shurrak whiffs. Rolling 0 dice, is still rolling the dice.
Yep.
Also, This is actually relevant now, with the Goblins Mob Attack power.
Thanks Fencejared for pointing that out. I haven't read the new cards enough to remember all their powers...YET.

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  #102  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:54 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

took a quick glance at his card and I misread his personality of militaristic, as being materialistic. haha. Anyway, comedy aside. Can figures take engagement attacks if they are knocked into adjacency, as opposed of moving there of their free will? Say like I knockback a figure into a GIE, Arkmer, Nakita Agent, or Fire Elemental.
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  #103  
Old July 9th, 2010, 09:55 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by scapemage921 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scapemage921 View Post
This guy's just a mock-up Jotun with Lava Resistance. Which is cool considering he's 75 points less. Just because he can hurt himself dopesn't take away his awesomeness. The Knockback is similar to what is used in C3G, so you can just Knock your opponent's hero off a cliff and kill them with falling damage.
I just got neg rapped for speaking my opinion in a public, open thread because "someone already posted that". I'm sorry I chimed in with my opinion didn't read the first 7 pages of this thread?
Don't complain about neg rep. It's bad for your rep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roninvalentina
Sounds like this is what you do with Shurrok against a spaced out Rat Screen. Move in between two rats, take one Passing Swipe and remain adjacent to the other rat. Attack that one with Sweeping Sword, having a good chance to kill the rat and also preventing Scatter. If the rat dies, then you've put a hole in the screen. If the rat didn't die, you still have a chance to knock the rat away, still putting a hole in the screen. In either case, unless you trigger scatter later or your opponent has OMs on the rats, you've got a pretty good chance of moving Shurrak further in towards your opponent's core figures.
Yeah that what I was thinking of as well. With a 5 attack special he's most likely to take out that one rat and if not he has a chance with knockback. No OM's on the rats mean there's going to be a big hole in your line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardris1287 View Post
took a quick glance at his card and I misread his personality of militaristic, as being materialistic. haha. Anyway, comedy aside. Can figures take engagement attacks if they are knocked into adjacency, as opposed of moving there of their free will? Say like I knockback a figure into a GIE, Arkmer, Nakita Agent, or Fire Elemental.

Yes, they'll take the engagement attacks.
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  #104  
Old July 9th, 2010, 11:48 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardris1287 View Post
took a quick glance at his card and I misread his personality of militaristic, as being materialistic. haha. Anyway, comedy aside. Can figures take engagement attacks if they are knocked into adjacency, as opposed of moving there of their free will? Say like I knockback a figure into a GIE, Arkmer, Nakita Agent, or Fire Elemental.
Yes, they'll take the engagement attacks.
They also do for things like Talon Grab, Chain Grab, Tactical Switch, and Throw 14.

Except from the Fire Elemental. Becuase he doesn't have Engagement Strike.
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  #105  
Old July 11th, 2010, 03:11 AM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

I really like the knock back mechanic of this piece coupled with sweep. I am always happy to see units added to the game that have abillities that can be used in a more creative tactical fashion. I love any special ability that allows you to alter the position of pieces on the board. It adds depth to the game. Sadly most of the pieces that use cool abillities like knock back aren't quite strong enough to make the cut in a tournament setting which is unfortunate.

Most of the tournament armies are actually quite simplistic when it comes to strategy. The strongest tournament armies tend to be swarms of commons. It's akin to playing a chess match with nothing but a massive army of pawns.

This being said, I think Shurrack is an alright piece but he doesn't quite have the fire power to earn his points when taking on things like swarms of stingers and minute men. His knock back ability would be so much nicer if it worked 100% of the time. Four defense is not stellar on a unit that is this expensive. His 6 life is pretty good but when you take into consideration that he cannot fly and has no range it looks like he just isn't going to have enough staying power to unleash 160 points worth of impact.

Without knock back working consistently Shurrack is just a heavy hitting melee piece with the ability to hit more than one target in somewhat rare instances. If his knock back worked more dependably he could set up his own double hits quite nicely but a roughly one in three chance is not enough. This basically leaves Shurrack as a heavy hitting melee piece that can be used to mow through enemy lines and clear a path which is a niche that is filled by several other units that I think do a better job for the price. The Hydra and Krug for instance. I like the concept behind Shurrack a lot but without a consistent knock back ability I just can't see him as a good alternative to some of the pieces we already have at our disposal.

Last edited by Looking East; July 11th, 2010 at 03:19 AM.
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  #106  
Old July 11th, 2010, 12:15 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

The thing with Knockback is that if you knock them back, it means you didn't kill them. The only situation where that can possibly be a great thing is if it is a unique or uncommon hero. Anything else I'd rather kill than knock back.

Here's a question: We've already talked about flipping double-hex figures while they are moving (it's allowed), but are they allowed to flip in the attack phase? Can you switch Q9 around after shooting once to shoot something on the other side as well? Can you flip Shurrak after he hits something so he can see it fly away on the other side?

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  #107  
Old July 11th, 2010, 12:27 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
The thing with Knockback is that if you knock them back, it means you didn't kill them. The only situation where that can possibly be a great thing is if it is a unique or uncommon hero. Anything else I'd rather kill than knock back.

Here's a question: We've already talked about flipping double-hex figures while they are moving (it's allowed), but are they allowed to flip in the attack phase? Can you switch Q9 around after shooting once to shoot something on the other side as well? Can you flip Shurrak after he hits something so he can see it fly away on the other side?
No. The flipping of a double spaced figure is only allowed during the movement step. Once you start attacking, the figure cannot be flipped. This is covered in the FAQ.

Edit:

Page 4, under Movements (Double-Space Figures)

When can you flip a double-space figure?
You can flip a double-space figure any point before, during, or at
the end of that figure's movement.



Last edited by CheddarLimbo; July 11th, 2010 at 12:37 PM.
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  #108  
Old July 11th, 2010, 12:38 PM
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Re: Shurrak Pre-Release Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
The thing with Knockback is that if you knock them back, it means you didn't kill them.
he was designed to knock people into lava. I won't beat around the bush on this one. I have stated openly that I want lava to be more of a threat. If you are on a flat map with no lava, knock back becomes superfluous.


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