The Book of Leonardo

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by quozl

Raph's power happens whether he's activated or not. I'll look into how to word this as I'd rather him only roll for it on Leo's turn, not anyone else who gets activated by Turtle Power.

Touche. I blame being sick.

I guess what I really meant was that you could just not draft Raphael and you probably wouldn't be losing much. But it's a bummer if that's the case for the faction.

[Margloth]

I guess the question I have for the mechanics is, is said mechanic:

A) Take a turn with Leo. You may now reveal and remove OMs normally on your other Turtles to take turns before an opponents';

Or

B) Take a turn with Leo. You may now take extra turns with Turtles by dumping order markers.

I assume it's the former, since several Turtles have powers that activate "after revealing an order marker on this card", in which case the sequence and other wording needs to be looked at very carefully, since taking an entire turn is a more involved process than making extra attacks like Deathbird.

If, however, there is no intent to make it "early OM turns", I would suggest removing the revealing of the order markers and instead just make it removing those OMs, so there is no confusion as to whether the turn is granted by the OM reveal or not.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I guess what I really meant was that you could just not draft Raphael and you probably wouldn't be losing much. But it's a bummer if that's the case for the faction.

With the power as it currently stands, I'd never draft Raph and Leo together.

[quozl]

That's not saying much, SG-1, as you've said you'd never draft Raph ever.

[quozl]

OK, Raph's Self-Importance says "Whenever you reveal a numbered Order Marker on any other Army Card you control..."

Only Leonardo and Michelangelo have OM revealing requirements. Would anyone be opposed if we changed Mike to not require the OM reveal? We'd need to do some more testing with him and he'd probably go up in points a bit. In fact, I'd probably up the Cowabunga! roll to 14 to keep his points close to where they are now.

If we did that, we could change Turtle Power to "After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Leonardo, you may immediately remove up to 3 Order Markers on other Ninja Turtle cards you control to take one turn each with those figures." and that would only trigger Self-Importance when Leo reveals his OM.

[IAmBatman]

Sounds like a good approach to me. It'd actually make Raphael more usable with Leonardo than in most armies.

[A3n]

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Sounds like a good approach to me. It'd actually make Raphael more usable with Leonardo than in most armies.

Er, how? If anything, he'd work better with Leo if he could 'steal' the bonus turns from Mikey and Donnie.

Originally Posted by quozl

That's not saying much, SG-1, as you've said you'd never draft Raph ever.

I don't recall ever saying that exactly. I said self-importance is horrible because it absolutely is, but I'm sure if I really tried I could come up with an army were Raph could... sort of do something.

But Self Importance and Turtle Power is just a really bad mix right now. If you want 4 Turtles, then it's probably to do a big 4 activation assault on your first turn... except Raph has a good chance of screwing that up and it's not like he's offering much in exchange. If your not planning on doing the 4 activation, you don't need Raph there at all (you can just do OM1 and 2 on Leo, 3 and X on Donnie and/or Mikey). At best, you'd only include him because he is literally the only option left (unless y'all make a card for Venus at some-point).

Now, if Turtle power worked more like Riddle Me This, where it can potentially happen before you roll for Self Importance, that would make things interesting.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Er, how? If anything, he'd work better with Leo if he could 'steal' the bonus turns from Mikey and Donnie.

Because it limits how much Raph can screw up your plans for the round by resolving multiple Order Markers at once. As long as you don't hit the 16+ on your OM1, you can get in the rest of your turns for the round at that point without Raph getting self important and changing things.

[IAmBatman]

Of course, you could do a complete end around by allowing the initial Order Marker to be activated on a different Turtle's card:

TURTLE POWER
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of a Ninja Turtle you control in clear sight of Leonardo, before taking a turn with that Ninja Turtle, you may immediately reveal up to 3 Order Markers on other Ninja Turtle cards you control to take one turn each with those figures.

[dok]

Here's my take - using the "remove" trick and piggybacking the "riddle me this/immediately" trick by moving it to the start of the turn:

TURTLE POWER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, before taking a turn with Leonardo, you may immediately remove up to 3 Order Markers on other Ninja Turtle cards to take one turn each with those figures.

Seems like it addresses the issues. You might need a FAQ about how it interacts with self-importance, but I assume the idea would be to let the turtle power turns play out, then roll for SI to see if Raph takes a turn instead of Leo.

(As an aside: how bad Self-Importance is in general is a function of how valuable the turn with that figure is. If Thor had self-importance, nobody would really care.)

[quozl]

Self-Importance triggers before any special powers are used. However, this is fine. Either it doesn't trigger and Leo uses Turtle Power or it does trigger and Raph screws up Leo's plan.