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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #193  
Old September 17th, 2015, 05:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

I'm sure there is something from Classic that was brought over that each of us wish wouldn't have. Heck I wish I didn't have to add the fog on all the mini cards.

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #194  
Old September 17th, 2015, 06:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
I'm sure there is something from Classic that was brought over that each of us wish wouldn't have. Heck I wish I didn't have to add the fog on all the mini cards.
Heh, yeah I dislike having to do that on the hordes of cards I've made, too.

I will say, though, that I see a significant difference between things that require effort to do well but have a benefit, vs. things that keep getting repeated for tradition's sake but mostly just waste text space or make things harder to read for the player or keep perpetuating an incorrect interpretation that has to be countered in FAQs and R&Cs.

It's hard for me when a new card plays "follow the leader" to a weak implementation. Like, say, a card with some long name like Grabnoflorvix the Kyrie Warrior that has a tiny font size and forces us to keep reading "Grabnoflorvix the Kyrie Warrior" nine or ten times in the special power texts because apparently simple pronouns don't feel "scapey." Or a bunch of cards that use the wordiest and most awkward canonical template for saying add 1 die instead of the most concise and elegant one. Or a special attack that insists on copying some template and saying "Flugelhorn Fernando is not affected by Flugelhorn Fanfare Special Attack" when it's not even possible to target/include Fernando in the first place.

Hasbro did a fantastic thing. They published an excellent game by super-talented designers and kept it alive long enough to build a player base and provide a lot of good content and resources. Repeat the many great things they did well, and improve upon the smaller number of things they did that are not so good. Win-win.


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  #195  
Old September 17th, 2015, 06:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

I really like that latest version, JaB! I think C3G has been OK breaking with Hasbro wording precedent when it's benefited us (occasionally to our detriment when it comes to mechanical rulings, but often for the better when it comes to economy of space, and sometimes even when it comes to clarity).

Edit: "Official as possible" is part of the mission statement of C3V, and that approach makes a lot of sense for them. For us, our "official" is only 10 figures deep, and we've long since made this universe of figures more our own.

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  #196  
Old November 4th, 2015, 11:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
And actually, I contemplated going even a step further, to save space and help reduce the number of times some of these special attacks monotonously reference themselves:
CANARY CRY SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 4.
Choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Black Canary. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Black Canary within 1 space of the chosen spaces, are affected by this special attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Black Canary is not affected by this special attack. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against this special attack.
In my book, being more concise while still being clear and leakproof is a very good thing; "tradition" is not always the best editor.

This recast also puts the BC self-immunity where it belongs instead of as an afterthought (that technically doesn't show up until after attack and defense dice have been rolled!), and avoids separating the defensive dice rolling from its mandatory Symbiote modifier. To show that more visually...

Structurally speaking, there are 3 sentences about Targeting and 3 about Rolling, but they are interleaved: TTRTRR. In each group, statements about one thing that we would naturally expect to group together are separated by a statement about the other thing. The proposed recast groups them together more naturally as 5 chronological sentences: TT(t) RRR.

Overall it's just better organized and shorter, in my opinion.

(Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that the wastefully ubiquitous sentence "Each figure rolls defense dice separately" should have been a rule and was never really needed on any army card, but now I'm just howling at the moon, eh?)

All of these efforts, I think, help achieve Johnny's goals, which (despite our different perspectives on certain details) I do very much share:

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Word sprawl is a major, MAJOR turnoff for new players, and if we can take shortcuts to limit it where possible I think that's only a good thing.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
I'd take elegant any day of the week
Bumping this and still endorse it.

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  #197  
Old November 5th, 2015, 12:05 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary


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  #198  
Old November 5th, 2015, 12:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

I'm okay with making the change, but want to note that it'll be sweeping - we have a number of designs that use space adjacency.
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  #199  
Old November 5th, 2015, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

I'm all for that update, though it also means a lot of other designs will need an update. I believe this is the whole list of units that also use the "adjacent to a space" wording, but I feel like I'm missing some:

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  #200  
Old November 5th, 2015, 12:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

Yeah, this will impact a bunch of other units. Viegon's list looks the same as the one I compiled, except he's missing Gorgon and I'm missing Korvus.

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  #201  
Old November 5th, 2015, 09:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

I'm good with that change
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  #202  
Old November 7th, 2015, 07:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
I'm all for that update, though it also means a lot of other designs will need an update. I believe this is the whole list of units that also use the "adjacent to a space" wording, but I feel like I'm missing some:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Yeah, this will impact a bunch of other units. Viegon's list looks the same as the one I compiled, except he's missing Gorgon and I'm missing Korvus.
Make the decision & then ensure the SPs are updated on them all & I will get to my ones (Scape's & Tcglkn's also - which I believe covers just about all of them ) as I can.
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  #203  
Old November 7th, 2015, 11:52 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

Thanks A3n, I'll notify you when we officially make a decision.

It looks like we already have five of the heroes on board with this change, only missing @SirGalahad ; I'll give him a couple of days before officially calling this.

In the meantime, here's what all the cards will need updated to; please take a look over it and make sure I didn't miss anything:
  • A.I.M. Agents
    Quote:
    WEAPONIZED VIRUS SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range 3. Lob 12. Attack Special
    Instead of attacking normally with a squad of A.I.M. Agents this turn, you may choose a space within 3 spaces of one or more A.I.M. Agents you control. All figures on and within 1 space of the chosen space are affected. Roll X attack dice once for all affected figures, where X equals the number of unengaged A.I.M. Agents you control within 3 spaces of the chosen space. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. The defending figure compares height to the lowest A.I.M. Agent to determine height advantage. A figure that receives one or more wounds from this attack receives one additional wound. Androids, destructible objects, and figures with the Environmental Suit special power are not affected by this special attack.

    ENVIRONMENTAL SUIT
    When rolling defense against a special attack, A.I.M. Agents always add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled. If an A.I.M. Agent is chosen by an opponent for a special power requiring a 20-sided die roll, the opponent must subtract 2 from that die roll.
  • Awesome Android
    Quote:
    GALE FORCE EXHALE
    Instead of taking a turn with Awesome Android, you may choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Awesome Android. Any tiny, small, or medium figures on or within one space of the chosen spaces may be placed on any empty space within 2 spaces of their original placement. Placed figures will not take any leaving engagement attacks but will take any falling damage that may apply. This special power can only be used once per round.

    EPIDERMAL MIMICRY
    If Awesome Android is targeted for an adjacent or non-adjacent attack or special power from an enemy figure, you may choose one special power from the Army Card of an adjacent Unique Hero to use for the remainder of the turn. If the special power refers to the chosen figure or its card, it refers to Awesome Android or this card instead.

    WEAK-MINDED 4
    If any player rolls the 20-sided die to take temporary or permanent control of Awesome Android, that player may add 4 to the roll.

    SUPERSTRENGTH

    I slipped in a "you may" that seemed to be missing from Gale Force Exhale.
  • Banshee
    Quote:
    SONIC SCREAM SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 4.
    Choose 4 spaces in a straight line from Banshee. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Banshee within 1 space of the chosen spaces, are affected by this special attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against this special attack.

    SONIC FLYING
    When using the Flying special power, Banshee may add 3 to his Move number. If he does, he cannot attack this turn.

    FLYING
  • Cyborg
    Quote:
    HIGH TECH TARGETING
    Before attacking, Cyborg may add 6 to his Range number. If he does, he must attack a figure engaged with at least one figure you control.

    CHARGED SONIC CANNON SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 5 + Special.
    Choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Cyborg. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Cyborg within 1 space of the chosen spaces, are affected by this special attack. Roll 1 fewer attack die for each space Cyborg moved this turn. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against this special attack.

    CYBERNETIC REPAIR X
    At the end of the round, if you reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card, remove one Wound Marker from each Army Card you control with the Cybernetic Repair X special power.

    SUPER STRENGTH
  • Gorgon
    Quote:
    GODKILLER SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range 1. Attack 2 + Special.
    Roll 2 + X dice for this special attack. X is equal to the Life number on the defending figure's Army Card to a maximum of 8 additional dice. This special attack may only be used once per round.

    STONE GAZE
    Instead of attacking with Gorgon, choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Gorgon. All figures other than destructible objects on or within 1 space of those 3 spaces that are within clear sight of Gorgon are affected by Stone Gaze. One at a time, roll the 20-sided die for each affected figure. If the figure is a Squad figure and you roll 8 or higher, or a Hero figure and you roll 20 or higher, it is destroyed.

    PRECOGNITIVE STRIKE 12
    When an opponent's figure without the Mental Shield special power targets Gorgon for an adjacent attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, the opponent's figure receives 1 wound and its turn immediately ends.
  • Hydro-Man
    Quote:
    WATER MANIPULATION
    Start the game with 3 water tiles on this card. Instead of attacking, you may remove a water tile from this card and place it on either the space Hydro-Man occupies or any empty land space within 3 spaces of Hydro-Man, if the water tile fits normally onto that space.

    WATER TUNNEL
    If Hydro-Man ends his normal movement on a water space, you may immediately place him on any empty same-level water space within 5 spaces. When Hydro-Man starts to Water Tunnel, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

    TIDAL WAVE SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 4.
    Hydro-Man may only use this special attack while on a water space. Choose up to 4 spaces in a straight line from Hydro-Man. All figures on and within 1 space of the chosen spaces are affected by this special attack. Hydro-Man and all Huge figures are not affected by this special attack. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. You may place each affected figure that receives one or more wounds from this special attack on an empty space up to 3 spaces from its original placement. A figure moved by this special attack never takes leaving engagement attacks and cannot be placed closer to Hydro-Man than its original placement.

    SUPER STRENGTH
  • Korvus Rook'Shir
    Quote:
    BLADE OF THE PHOENIX
    Figures roll 2 fewer defense dice when defending against Korvus' normal attack. If Korvus is within 4 spaces of a figure with the Phoenix Fire special power you control after inflicting one or more wounds on a figure with his normal attack, you may roll 1 unblockable attack die against the defending figure. Figures with the Phoenix Fire special power are not affected by Blade of the Phoenix.

    SWEEPING BLADE SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 4.
    Choose two spaces adjacent to Korvus that are also adjacent to each other. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Korvus within 1 space of the chosen spaces that are no more than 3 levels higher than his height or 3 levels lower than his base, are affected by this special attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each affected figure rolls defense dice separately.

    SUPER STRENGTH

    I struck out an "affected" in the last line for consistency with the others.
  • Krypto
    Quote:
    SONIC BARK SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 3.
    Choose 2 spaces in a straight line from Krypto. All figures on and within 1 space of the chosen spaces are affected by this special attack. Kryptonians are not affected by this special attack. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against this special attack.

    DARING DECOY
    Figures engaged with Krypto can only attack figures that have the Daring Decoy special power.

    KRYPTONIAN'S BEST FRIEND
    After taking a turn with any other Unique Kryptonian Hero you control, you may move Krypto as long as he ends his movement adjacent to the Unique Kryptonian Hero. Krypto will not take any leaving engagement attacks when using this special power.

    SUPER STRENGTH
    FLYING


    I moved the "Kryptonians aren't affected" line to come directly after the line that tells you whose affected, and I struck the "3" in the "roll attack dice" sentence. Also skimming Krypto's thread, we had discussed adding a "you control" to Kryptonian's Best Friend but it never got officially added, so I went ahead and did it now.
  • Mongul
    Quote:
    MONGUL'S CHAMPION
    At the start of the game, you may choose a Unique Champion Hero you control to be Mongul’s Champion. When Mongul‘s Champion is within 4 clear sight spaces of Mongul and attacks with a normal attack or a leaving engagement attack, roll one additional attack die. If Mongul's Champion is destroyed, you may choose a new Unique Champion Hero you control to be Mongul's Champion.

    AMULET ENERGY BLAST SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range 3 + Special. Attack 3 + Special.
    Before attacking, you may remove any number of unrevealed Order Markers from this card. Add 1 to the Range number and 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled for each removed Order Marker.

    WARWORLD’S ORBITAL ASSAULT
    After taking a turn with Mongul or Mongul's Champion, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and choose a space on the battlefield. Roll the 20-sided die for each figure on the chosen space or within 1 space of the chosen space, one at a time. If you roll 15 or higher, the figure receives 1 wound.

    SUPER STRENGTH
  • Pied Piper
    Quote:
    SONIC FLUTE SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 3.
    Choose 2 spaces in a straight line from Pied Piper. All opponent's figures on and within 1 space of the chosen spaces are affected by this special attack. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against this special attack.

    SONIC MIND CONTROL
    After taking a turn with Pied Piper, you may choose any Unique Hero that received at least one wound from Sonic Flute Special Attack this turn or any two Rodent Heroes. Take temporary control of each chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before the Sonic Mind Control.

    Instead of having a separate line that says "figures you control aren't affected", I simply put an "opponent's" in the second sentence. I also struck the "3" in the "roll attack dice" sentence again.
  • Silver Banshee
    Quote:
    ACCURSED WAIL
    Before taking a turn with Silver Banshee, if there are any Wound Markers on this card, you must choose X spaces in a straight line from her. X equals the number of Wound Markers on this card. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Silver Banshee within 1 space of the chosen spaces, are affected. Roll the 20-sided die once for all affected figures. If you roll 14 or higher, all affected Symbiotes receive two wounds and all other affected figures receive one wound.

    MAGICAL DEFENSE
    When Silver Banshee is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, the most wounds Silver Banshee can take for this attack is one.

    SUPER STRENGTH
    FLYING
  • Siryn
    Quote:
    SONIC SCREAM SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range Special. Attack 4.
    Choose 4 spaces in a straight line from Siryn. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Siryn within 1 space of the chosen spaces, are affected by this special attack. Roll 4 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against this special attack.

    VOCAL TRANCE 14
    Instead of attacking, you may choose a Unique Hero within 3 clear sight spaces of Siryn and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 14 or higher, take temporary control of that Hero and immediately take a turn with the chosen Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before the Vocal Trance.

    FLYING

    Also struck the "4" in "roll attack dice" for this one.
  • Superman (II)
    Quote:
    SUPER BREATH
    Instead of taking a turn with Superman, you may choose 2 spaces in a straight line from Superman. All figures on the chosen spaces, and all figures other than Superman within 1 space of the chosen spaces, may be placed on any empty space within 2 spaces of their original placement. Figures moved by Super Breath never take any leaving engagement attacks. A non-flying figure moved lower can receive any falling damage that may apply. Superman can only use Super Breath once per round.

    HEAT VISION SPECIAL ATTACK
    Range 4. Attack 2 + Special.
    Choose a figure to attack and roll 2 attack dice, or 3 attack dice if the chosen figure is an Android or Destructible Object. For each skull rolled, roll one additional attack die. Continue rolling an additional attack die for each additional skull rolled until no skulls are rolled. The defending figure rolls defense normally.

    MAN OF STEEL
    When rolling defense against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.

    SUPER STRENGTH
    FLYING


    Like Awesome Android, I added a "you may" that seemed to be missing.

@Just_a_Bill , while we're already working on these ones, any other wording suggestions?

C3G: Taking Superheroes to a Whole New Level!
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Viegon & Family's Classic Customs, Maps, and Battlefield Videos.

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Last edited by Viegon; November 7th, 2015 at 12:35 PM.
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  #204  
Old November 7th, 2015, 12:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary

Those are looking good. You'd need to scratch the '4' in "4 attack dice" from Banshee's SA to match up with Siryn.

You've AIM Agents, Hydro-Man, Krypto, and Pied Piper referring to "figures on and within 1 space of the chosen space(s)". I prefer the "on or within" language used in Awesome Android over the "on and within".

We'd also need Gorgon
Quote:
GODKILLER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2 + Special.
Roll 2 + X dice for this special attack. X is equal to the Life number on the defending figure's Army Card to a maximum of 8 additional dice. This special attack may only be used once per round.

STONE GAZE
Instead of attacking with Gorgon, choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Gorgon. All figures other than destructible objects on or within 1 space of those 3 spaces that are within clear sight of Gorgon are affected by Stone Gaze. One at a time, roll the 20-sided die for each affected figure. If the figure is a Squad figure and you roll 8 or higher, or a Hero figure and you roll 20 or higher, it is destroyed.

PRECOGNITIVE STRIKE 12
When an opponent's figure without the Mental Shield special power targets Gorgon for an adjacent attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, the opponent's figure receives 1 wound and its turn immediately ends.

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