Scytale's customs

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by hose

I finally finished going through this thread . It is very obvious that you put a lot of thought and work into your customs. They are very well done and absolutely will be included in my collection when I can.

Wow, thanks! Always an honor to hear someone else is interested in playing with my customs.

Originally Posted by hose

One question: The card for the Ice Devil Warfiends still lists the cost as 140. Does it just need updated to 160, or did further playtesting show it should stay at 140? Thank you very much for sharing your work.

They were reasonable before, though a bit stronger than I would like. The drop from 6 to 5 Move made a noticeable difference, so I decided to keep them at 140. Still one of my strongest units, but not overpowered.

[bmon]

Ever since I found your customs thread over a year ago, I've been slowly adding your designs to my playable collection. One of the many designs that I fell in love with was your Zulu faction. I picked them up a while back - though have yet to assemble, paint, and rebase them - but with the recent release of the C3V's Teeth of the Makwa, I'm really bummed that they've been broken.



[problematic...]
HUNTING PARTY:
After taking a turn with a Scout or Tribesman Hero you control, you may immediately move up to 6 Teeth of the Mawka figures you control up to 3 spaces each.



[conflicts with...]
ZULU STRATEGIC BONDING:
Before taking a turn with Zulu Warriors, you may first take a turn with a Tribesman Hero you control. If you take a turn with a Tribesman Hero, add 1 to the Zulu Warriors' attack. If you do not take a turn with a Tribesman Hero, add 4 to the Zulu Warrior's range.



[and further conlicts with...]
LEAD THE CHARGE:
After attacking an adjacent opponent's figure, if Sizwe inflicted one or more wounds, you may move up to Squad figures you control with the fearsome personality up to 4 spaces each.

By placing an order marker on the Zulu Warriors, you could...
1) Take a turn with Sizwe and inflict wounds (via ZULU STRATEGIC BONDING)
2) Move 2 fearsome Squad figures (ex. Teeth of the Mawkwa) up to 4 spaces (via LEAD THE CHARGE)
3) Move 6 Teeth of the Makwa up to 3 spaces (via HUNTING PARTY)
4) Take a turn with Zulu Warriors

I knew C3V/SoV designs would eventually clash with custom units I decided to integrate into my collection, but it's disappointing nonetheless.

Have you thought about this design conflict at all? Any thought into reworking it? It's really a shame, because part of the beauty of this faction was based off these abilities that are now in conflict. I'll probably just put a conditional "may not be used with Hunting Party" statement on the LEAD THE CHARGE ability to keep it simple. Or maybe I'll just change LEAD THE CHARGE to be two Warrior or Scout figures with the fearsome personality. Or maybe it's just a lot of action for one order marker, but not necessarily broken...

Mostly just curious if you've thought about this at all?

[Lazy Orang]

I'm not sure it's necessarily broken, but then the Teeth of the Makwa looked more than a tad weak to me just about as soon as I saw them, and I might not be right there. If it is broken, then you're already using customs - house rules are your friend.

~ Lazy Orang, who also likes the Zulu faction, but hasn't got around to adding it to her collection yet (nor does she know a good way of getting them in the UK....).

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by bmon

Mostly just curious if you've thought about this at all?

This isn't the first time VC customs have created unintended side effects with my own customs. At first I tried to change things to all fit, but it's madness in the long run.

The big question is how broken the combo is. I suspect that it actually isn't. In my experience, being able to move but not attack with lots of low-defense figures just means you're rushing figures to their deaths. Yeah, you can move lots of Teeth forward, but they aren't attacking. They're just going to get slaughtered. Of course, you can use them as shields for range-attacking Zulus, and that might be valuable, but the Teeth are pretty costly and fragile for that.

It's easy enough to "fix" Lead the Charge by limiting the bonus to Zulu Warriors specifically, or to Fearsome Warriors. The bonding boost isn't so easy to deal with. Changing the class of the Zulu heroes would probably be the way to go. Either way, it takes away some of the nice cross-faction synergy they already enjoyed.

[Ixe]

Having playtested the Teeth of Makwa a bunch of times across several iterations, I can say that they are deceptively powerful and would be pretty potent with the Zulu Warriors. One powerful strategy would be to start the battle using the warriors while moving the teeth of Makwa up for free. When they are in position, you transition to using the Teeth of Makwa and rain down range attacks without the cost of moving them up.

[bmon]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

~ Lazy Orang, who also likes the Zulu faction, but hasn't got around to adding it to her collection yet (nor does she know a good way of getting them in the UK....).

Actually I'm pretty sure Warlord Games (where the figures come from) is located in the UK.

http://www.warlordgames.com/

Since I haven't finished the miniatures yet, I've not got around to printing out the cards and was considering tweaking them. But maybe I'll just leave the cards as is. I think you both bring up a good point (and I think I was starting to realize myself) that this may not be broken. It may just be a lot of action for one order marker, but might not break any balance or rules.

[bmon]

Originally Posted by Ixe

Having playtested the Teeth of Makwa a bunch of times across several iterations, I can say that they are deceptively powerful and would be pretty potent with the Zulu Warriors. One powerful strategy would be to start the battle using the warriors while moving the teeth of Makwa up for free. When they are in position, you transition to using the Teeth of Makwa and rain down range attacks without the cost of moving them up.

Ya, it is a lot of movement that you would get. And gaining position, especially for ranged units, can be a big advantage.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by bmon

Actually I'm pretty sure Warlord Games (where the figures come from) is located in the UK.

http://www.warlordgames.com/

Since I haven't finished the miniatures yet, I've not got around to printing out the cards and was considering tweaking them. But maybe I'll just leave the cards as is. I think you both bring up a good point (and I think I was starting to realize myself) that this may not be broken. It may just be a lot of action for one order marker, but might not break any balance or rules.

That would be great, but the Zulu figures are Wargames Factory. Not that I have any trouble proxying, but I worry about getting good, distinguishable figures for the two Zulu heroes.

[bmon]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

That would be great, but the Zulu figures are Wargames Factory. Not that I have any trouble proxying, but I worry about getting good, distinguishable figures for the two Zulu heroes.

Let me first start by saying I don't know much about miniatures and know really nothing about the different miniature companies, so I may be completely missing something here, but my purchase went through Warlord Games and (though I could use an Unmarried Zulu sprue to go with it) the box of Married Zulu Regiment has most of what I needed for these.

According to this...
http://wargamesfactory.com/announcem...rtnership.html

Warlord Games will be the exclusive worldwide distributor of all Wargames Factory miniatures, featuring sets from such classic historical periods as the Dark Ages, War of Spanish Succession and American War of Independence.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by bmon

Let me first start by saying I don't know much about miniatures and know really nothing about the different miniature companies, so I may be completely missing something here, but my purchase went through Warlord Games and (though I could use an Unmarried Zulu sprue to go with it) the box of Married Zulu Regiment has most of what I needed for these.

According to this...
http://wargamesfactory.com/announcem...rtnership.html

Ah, I didn't know they were affiliated - thanks!

[bmon]

Ok. I came up with a solution that I was satisfied with.

For the Zulu Warriors and the Teeth of the Makwa to co-exist, I was mostly worried about the bonding conflict: bonding with a Tribesman hero meant a whole lot of units could move with one order marker. Rather than modify the Zulu tribe at all, I made a slight adjustment to the Teeth of the Makwa and forced an order marker reveal to trigger Hunting Party.

I've not been able to come up with any impact this added trigger requirement could have on the TotM. If anyone sees any, please share.

Here's the modified card, in case anyone else is interested...

Spoiler Alert!

[dok]

When I saw this the OM reveal immediately seemed like the obvious remedy. It's unlikely that the C3V card will ever be officially modified that way, but if you wish to mix it with Scytale's customs then I, personally, would co-sign that modification.