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AotP Blender A place to discuss AotP customs and ways to integrate Heroscape with AotP.


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  #85  
Old September 19th, 2015, 10:07 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
The PW would require an Order Marker, which would include his summon action (and something like Immediate which allows a creature to act as soon as summoned). After that, a creature squad would require a separate Order Marker.
<~snip/snip~>
I understand both sides of the order marker stance, but I do not come from other war games. IMO, playing Heroscape without order markers isn't Heorscape. I want the markers in there and I want the Planeswalker to conform to them rather than the other way around.
<~snip~>
I think that we as a community are collectively and individually looking at THREE separate issues and perhaps some clarification is necessary throughout the discussion so as not to misinterpret and disparage another 'Scaper's great ideas or good intentions.


#1. This Thread is titled: "Porting AtoP into Scape" and therefore we can probably ALL agree that without Order Markers, the game just isn't HeroScape. OMs must be an integral part of "blending" these two game systems into (hopefully) an eventual single seamless entity utilizing both sets of figures and abilities.


#2. There should be another Thread called: "Porting Scape into Atop." Although intimately related to this topic, it is quite a horse of a different color (pun intended). I am enthusiastic about opportunities for some (but not all) 'Scapers to embrace the concept of enlarging the AtoP battlefields with 3D HS terrain and beefing up the PW's armies with selected HS units. And this will also give the players the OPTION of whether or not to include certain nuances of the HeroScape Rules - such as the use of Order Markers. Coming from more of a War Gaming background, I think I would prefer this methodology since I never like the OM mechanic anyway. Even though many players consider OMs a vital part of the HS game, they don't have to be included in a M:TG-AotP session.


#3. The third issue is the fact that during the evolution of the experimental tweaking of both of these games' components in order to "blend" them into each other, somebody may come up with the perfect solution that develops into it's own unique entity and capitalize on that idea with their own KickStarter Project. That may be highly unlikely, but theoretically possible. So I threw it in to cover all the bases. This has been a great discussion and I should personally thank Hasbro (or CVN) for reigniting the fading embers of the HS fan base. I hope that I can very soon play both of these games (blended or not) as much as I've been talking about them.

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  #86  
Old September 19th, 2015, 10:31 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

JohnGee,

I agree with all of your points. Instead of someone starting Porting Scape Into AotP, someone started Porting Magic Into AotP, a horse of yet a different color, which includes making MTG cards into corresponding custom AotP cards--which I have neither the knowledge or interest in doing, although the resulting game might be fun eventually!

Kristo 2002 suggested making customs Heroscape cards out of all of the AotP cards, and of course my reaction was "Sure--you do it." I don't have the time, and probably neither does he.
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  #87  
Old September 19th, 2015, 10:36 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

"Target Creatures" vs "Target Figures"

The largest and most specific problem with blending the games in this "Phase I" of the project is the number of spell cards that specify "Target Creatures," which are limited to AotP targets only. I decided to keep that because others have pointed out that buffing or annihilating Scape figures with them totally breaks the game. The few cards so far that mention "Target Figures" could of course be used against Planeswalkers and Scape figures, but so far they are indeed few and far between.

All current AotP cards also mostly specify "Custom Squads," and who knows what kind of new cards will be necessary, or how spell decks will need to be built, when Common Squads and Heroes are introduced in AotP.

Wed love to get feedback from anyone else who tries out my rules and army building guidelines so far. A minor clarification or two will be made to the OP rules based on this series of games soon.

Note that R˙chean differs with my system in that he says putting an Order Marker on a Planeswalker should allow the player to activate either the PW or their squad, while I say that they will require separate Order Markers, as they have seperate army cards. Further comments will be made after more reflecting...

So Phase I Blending so far has its limitations, and it looks like some more work will be necessary, even to keep it simple as I originally intended.
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  #88  
Old September 19th, 2015, 11:43 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
<~snip~>
Kristo 2002 suggested making customs Heroscape cards out of all of the AotP cards, and of course my reaction was "Sure--you do it." I don't have the time, and probably neither does he.
My sentiments exactly. I would find the time to work on such a project IF I had any artistic talent and the appropriate software to do it. As I said here back on Aug. 13th . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johngee View Post
Unfortunately I have zero photo-shopping skills to create HS-esque cards, so I too am patiently awaiting some creative person to publish new custom cards for each of the Planeswalkers. [and their squads eventually]

IMO: I think the stats on the M:AotP cards can be directly copied onto an HS card format with [a 'loose'] General affiliation and background color that are pretty obvious, but still being debated on another thread.


Personally, I like the idea of them being able to summon one squad or allied creature in the same manner as Iskra summons the Retchets on a d20 roll or [the way] Kurrock the Enviromentalist calls forth the elementals.
Some day we'll have them @chas , some day . . . and sum dei I might even take you up on your offer and show up at your place in NYC, but don't hold your breath for either of these events to occur any time soon.

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  #89  
Old September 20th, 2015, 04:21 AM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
JohnGee,

I agree with all of your points. Instead of someone starting Porting Scape Into AotP, someone started Porting Magic Into AotP, a horse of yet a different color, which includes making MTG cards into corresponding custom AotP cards--which I have neither the knowledge or interest in doing, although the resulting game might be fun eventually!

Kristo 2002 suggested making customs Heroscape cards out of all of the AotP cards, and of course my reaction was "Sure--you do it." I don't have the time, and probably neither does he.
I suggested assigning M:tG colors to HS units, I didn't mean it was worth making custom cards out of all of the M:tG units. It's a matter of arguing over M:tG color philosophy, but if the community wants to do it, it's really not all that hard to do.

Sometimes, you just have to start over.
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  #90  
Old October 5th, 2015, 02:09 AM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

What if the colors were just new generals?

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  #91  
Old February 25th, 2016, 09:21 AM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Now that Zendikar is out, it would appear that no new rules are necessary to blend the games as I propose. I have yet to "Blend" Zendikar elements. However, with the Second Expansion/Master Set coming in the Fall, the new game should finally have a new viability all its own, as Army Building and Spell Deck Building will finally become interesting. And of course offer even more possiblilities for fun Blended Games.

In my early Zendikar play I find that Kiora, being a two color PW, kicks the **** out of the others (okay, she also got good dice in her initial runs). Supposedly the new PWs in the Fall will all be two color. But the older single color PWs should become better with more spell and army units to choose from!

The new Unique Heroes are also important, and should be so also for blended games. Almost as good as PWs, they may solve a problem with early blended games that "its all about the PW when fighting an AOTP army."

Last edited by chas; February 25th, 2016 at 12:15 PM.
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  #92  
Old February 25th, 2016, 11:16 AM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

I have decided after playing a handful of games with the AOTP units vs heroscape armies they both have pros and cons. In the end its like fighting apples against oranges. For instance, the Kor Aeronaught captain is 100 pts. His stats are amazing, he can fly, and he has the carry ability pretty much. You cant find scape figures like that for that cheap. I'm thinking they have enough figures out now that I'll have a Heroscape night, and a Magic-al night. I do think however its a cool idea to make separate cards for AOTP units you could play in heroscape without their card decks.
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  #93  
Old February 25th, 2016, 04:02 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

The thing that keeps the non-Planeswalker AotP units balanced against Heroscape units is the Planeswalkers themselves. They're so expensive and you have to have one of them to use the AotP units. Buy the time you've put a Planeswalker and his uber-strong Unique Hero in your army you've eaten up at least half your points.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #94  
Old February 25th, 2016, 04:21 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Responding to your original post @chas . I agree with your set up and play style though I would be hesitant to - if I understand you correctly - Count the spell card point values into the overall army build point value, simply because if that were the case in the video I just posted it would've ended up being my heroscape Army versus one planeswalker and her bunch of spells, or her and a squad with just a few spells
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  #95  
Old February 25th, 2016, 04:30 PM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Capsocrates and Adoney,

Keep in mind that in my own non-tournament Heroscape environment, I often play with larger point armies, so 500--600 does not have to be your limitation. If you check out our thread General Discussion/New York City Gang of Four, you'll see the kind of things we do. Usually for us its a four player game on a big 20 x 30 hex board, using all kinds of point totals.
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  #96  
Old February 28th, 2016, 04:29 AM
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Re: Porting AotP Into Scape

Er..am I the only one who is figuring out how to port MTG, AotP, and Classic HeroScape together ?
So far i'm not having that much trouble giving my Planeswalker a classic Magic Deck and having it fight a classic HeroScape army.

HeroScape army plays as normal with turn markers, has no leader figure as normal and just needs to kill the Plainswalker. Plainwalker dies all summoned figures vanish game over.

Now the tricky part is the Planeswalker it gets a much bigger deck than comes with AotP it gets the classic 60 card MTG deck with Land etc. He also gets 20 MAGIC Life points. ( Point costing and proxing the card creatures is time consuming but VERY do able) anyways. To be a fair fight the Planeswalkers MTG deck must be point costed and the Classic HeroScape army given the same point value worth of forces. There are some changes on how things work that must be respected. MTG has A LOT of direct damage cards and ability's .., balance rules must be figured out as well as what Summon creature cards become squads or hero figures . I just about have one of my Zombie decks figured out and had to figure out things like : MTG card Pestilence , it cast and gets used as per MTG ..However it's direct damage must be changed to dice defend-able hits or 1st time this spell gets used the Classic Scape army looses all of it's Squad figures , but if they have a chance to roll defense they have a chance .But also notice that this spell effects the Player and Plainswalker as well as every creature in play ,so while a Player using a Plainswalker gets 20 life points his avatar ( Plainswalker ) only has like 6 life or so . The Scape army Player is unaffected by this kind of direct damage but must defend his whole army. By my point systems this card is worth 50 points. But honestly I didn't finish pointing my Merfolk deck and just used a 500 point HeroScape army V.S. Jace using it and it seemed balanced. I will play the Zombie Deck using Liliana vs 500 points of Scape or see what the Zombie Deck point cost comes out to and give that many points to the Scape side, will post more soon.

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