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  #25  
Old December 21st, 2006, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth
That's what I get for opening my mouth without reading over the card again. Yeah forgot about that tagline on the end. I would think they should have not used "may" when talking about the move. But it happens, its about the rules intent and clearly that tagline shows intent.
Truth,

I think they used "may" because a Ninja that is not currently engaged could disappear while remaining in the same hex (should such a thing be desireable, say, if they were on a glyph).

~Aldin

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
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  #26  
Old December 21st, 2006, 10:45 PM
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Hey everyone! Long time reader, first time poster.

I get when the ninja can and can not disappear but I'm not sure if you need to count height when figuring the move up to 4 spaces. I guess if this is a bonus "normal" move the height should be considered. That would reflect the ninja getting super stealthy, sneaking away and then stepping back out of the shadows.

The more dramatic take would be the ninja drops some shinobi ninja magic, disappears in a cloud of smoke then reappears up to 4 hexes away...disregarding height. Imagine Syvarris' terror when he realizes he just double attacked certain death right into his lap!

Anyway, like I said, I'm new to the group but everyone here has been part of my daily routine for quite a while. I missed the games at GenCon 06 because what I registered for was dropped - the father/son team battle. By the time I got the notice, my schedule was already full. Next year I'm sure I'll be at the games. If there are Wednesday games at the Ram I'll make those too. Oh, I was able to score several Hawthornes at GenCon (son and wife where with me and we were able to grab one each before most people knew where to get them I think).

What else? Favorite figures - maybe the krav maga agents? Favorite board - Faultline2 from the downloads.

Looking forward to being an active member of the site.

Later,
frog
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  #27  
Old December 21st, 2006, 10:47 PM
Homba Homba is offline
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Regarding Snotwalker's question:

Quote:
Disappearing Ninja: If a Ninja of the Northern Wind is attacked with a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die to disappear. If you roll 1-11, roll defense dice normally. If you roll a 12 or higher, that Ninja of the Northern Wind takes no damage and instead may move up to 4 spaces. Ninjas of the Northern Wind can disappear only if they end their disappearing move not adjacent to any enemy figures.
As I read it, you roll the d20 "to disappear."

"Disappearing" has 2 benefits: (1) you take no damage, and (2) you may move up to 4 spaces.

However, there is a limitation: You "can disappear only if" (non-adjacent requirement)

If you are cyberclawed, you cannot meet the requirement, so you cannot "disappear." Since you cannot disappear, you cannot partake of either of the benefits of disappearing, just as if you had rolled a 1-11 in the first place and failed to disappear.

But I understand the argument you're making, separating the damage avoidance from the optional move. Send it to Wizards and see what comes back.

H

Welcome to the board, mecha frog, I think the 4 spaces is an unmodifiable move limit, and you must incorporate height etc in counting your move (you can't fly up a huge cliff). But I'll let someone else confirm that.
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  #28  
Old December 21st, 2006, 10:51 PM
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Welcome to the boards, mecha frog!

Ninjas do have to pay any movement penalties (such as going over a wall or up a level).

~Aldin

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
~James Graham
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  #29  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 12:59 AM
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I Would have to agree with LilNewbie, that you have to be able to move without ending the movement engaged. And to go with the Snotwalkers visual of the smoke bomb, The gladiatron's cyber claw grasps the ninja keeping the ninja near it. As if handcuffed. But yeah the rule does say can only disappear if you can no longer be engaged. Thanks for all the input though guys.
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  #30  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 01:10 PM
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To me the part that gives it away is "and instead may move" meaning that the move is actually replacing the damage. Therefore, if you can't move, you can't replace the damage, can't disappear, and have to roll normal defence.

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  #31  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 01:30 PM
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yet another way to look at it...

If the ninja threw a smoke bomb, the gladiatron wouldn't decide to unclamp his claws just because its smoky and could still slam the ninja on the ground for the fun of it, inflicting massive damage, or if someone was shooting, hold still so that he doesn't get shot instead.
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  #32  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 02:35 PM
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OFFICIAL RULING ALERT! (Edit: as official as we have it at this time... We'll see how accurate the WOTC team is over there)

We have an official ruling from Wizards of the Coast, which they said will be added to a FAQ / Errata list.

I called customer service, and they clarified that the 4-space movement piece of the disappearing ability is OPTIONAL, and that the adjacency rule ONLY comes into play if the Ninja chooses to utilize the movement ability.

I also asked about the cyberclaw situation, just to be sure, and they confirmed that the ninja could still roll for the disappear ability to avoid damage, but then would NOT be able to do the movement option... but yes, can still roll to avoid damage.

So there you have it. Having an 800 number to call for official rulings is a nice new feature!

Merry Christmas all.

SW8K

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  #33  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 03:22 PM
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I think we need to take any thing we get form WOTC with a grain of salt right now...they are providing rulings that are in clear contradiction to previous rulings from Hasbro...

I think they are shooting from the hip on some of this...

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  #34  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 04:01 PM
Homba Homba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000
OFFICIAL RULING ALERT!

We have an official ruling from Wizards of the Coast, which they said will be added to a FAQ / Errata list.

I called customer service, and they clarified that the 4-space movement piece of the disappearing ability is OPTIONAL, and that the adjacency rule ONLY comes into play if the Ninja chooses to utilize the movement ability.

I also asked about the cyberclaw situation, just to be sure, and they confirmed that the ninja could still roll for the disappear ability to avoid damage, but then would NOT be able to do the movement option... but yes, can still roll to avoid damage.

So there you have it. Having an 800 number to call for official rulings is a nice new feature!

Merry Christmas all.

SW8K
The idea that they answered that over the phone with you pretty much rules out contacting Craig & Rob about it - and they definitely need to be contacted about this one as it is a novel issue. To me, this is just some shmoe at Wizards like me or you, probably with a lot less interest in / experience with HS than me or you, reading the card and giving you his best guess. I have an extreme problem with the "authoritativeness" of that answer. The only people who can answer this question with authority are Craig and Rob, not a dude on the phone at Wizards. Chris Dupuis would always send a novel question to Craig and Rob. If Wizards isn't going to have the same policy, we should save up all these questions for Gencon in a list, and get them answered by Craig and Rob there, period.

Not only is that ruling "unrealistic" (which means little in HS) b/c how is the Nija locked in the Cyberclaw going to avoid the damage!? But it is also the opposite of (IMO) the simplest and most logical reading of the card (see my post above, and others).

H
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  #35  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homba
The idea that they answered that over the phone with you pretty much rules out contacting Craig & Rob about it - and they definitely need to be contacted about this one as it is a novel issue.
Co-sign.

There were a few times Chris got back to us about an error on his part once he ran the question by Craig n' crew. I really hope the WotC CSR's aren't being overly hasty in the rulings they drop... Though it sounds like they are.

The only real way to know the true ruling (CSR aside) is for the answer to be posted on the .COM website under the FAQ. And while this may take a while, better to have a concrete answer rather than a bandaid answer which will later be removed and replaced with a different ruling.

... though even some rulings in the FAQ have been tweaked.


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  #36  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 08:51 PM
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Uh, yeah, I can't say that the answer there seems to garner a full understanding of the card, game mechanics, and such. My perception of the card has that disappearing is what avoids the wounds, disappearing requires non-adjacent status, and the optional "may" word is because the Ninja may not have been adjacent at the beginning. This is how I've played them in the past and it seems very very off to allow them to disappear when they can't move.

Otherwise, they could have just been given stealth armor 12 and avoided all this.

If the card text had been re-ordered to have "Ninjas of the Northern Wind can disappear only if they end their disappearing move not adjacent to any enemy figures." at the beginning of the power, I think it would have helped.

Yerf, I have to go offline for a couple days and come back to "official" answers run amok. I need to catch up!!!
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