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  #61  
Old April 6th, 2021, 02:19 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (3/30/21... WULFING updates!)



Updates after testing and feedback.

1. Dropped move by 1 because of the passive move effect while unengaged.

2. Name change to remove "lurking" on the bonding ability.

Otherwise unchanged.
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  #62  
Old April 15th, 2021, 02:29 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)

Working on some updates, the current draft hasn't been completely sunk in the SoV process yet (awaiting votes). I'm brainstorming with the feedback I've received though. Here is where I am at currently:

CARD TEXT:

WULFLING HUNTERS

GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = WULFLING
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = HUNTERS
PERSONALITY = FEARSOME
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 50

HUNTER HERO PACK BONDING
Before taking a turn with the Wulfling Hunters, you may take a turn with an unengaged Hunter Hero you control. If you do not take a turn with a Hunter Hero, you may move and attack with up to four Wulfling Hunters.

STEALTHY 3
When an unengaged Wulfling Hunter is attacked with a normal or special attack, add 3 defense dice to the defending Wulfling.

I think this version addresses any concerns that just flat out no hitzones was bringing up. It is good vs ranged but not a complete shut down, the last thing I would want to do is just make the game completely unfun for someone that likes to play with ranged units (even though they make it unfun for me lol).

The question is, what to do with the current Pack Bonding. I think it serves a purpose correctly but if it gets shot down completely the problem statement is: How to provide meaningful support to Hunter Heroes without using an extra turn.

I did an analysis of all the varying types of support that are currently in Heroscape and compared it to what Hunters need. What I confirmed is that Hunters are designed to 1. move fast and 2. hit hard. They often have problems surviving so three paths exist, A. make hunters better at what they do (which is what extra turns do) B. compensate for their weaknesses. C. Give hunters something that they do no otherwise have access to that is within the theme of the Wulfling unit.

I think that the best way for the Wulfings to operate is to make Hunters better at what they do, and looking through my binder of units and notes I came across an ability that I designed a long time ago and re-fitted it to be part of the Wulfing toolkit:


PACK TACTICS
Hunters attacking a figure already engaged with a Wulfing Hunter may add 1 additional die to their attack roll.


This offers passive support to hunters and strengthens what they already like to do, which is kill things. This should be thematic in the respect that you can see Hunters helping other hunters, and it shouldn't be enough of a boost that you would rush in during one turn and then refuse to attack in order to get the boost on the next turn. However, it would provide some incentive for actually using a Hunter Hero or mixing them in with other Hunter squads because it will work with ANY Hunter to include themselves. It's a teamwork mechanic.

However, if the ability to interact directly with Hunter Heroes will diminish then I would still like to be able to mass them as a 4 man squad in some instances. I think I can circle back around to earlier designs with this and make some older things make sense in a new light.


WULFLING HUNTERS

GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = WULFLING
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = HUNTERS
PERSONALITY = FEARSOME
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 50

WULF PACK
Each turn you must choose to Search for Prey or Kill Prey. If you Search for Prey then you may move up to 4 Wulfling Hunters but only attack with up to 2. If you Kill Prey then you may attack with up to 4 Wulfling Hunters but only move with up to 2.

PACK TACTICS
Hunters attacking a figure that is engaged with a Wulfling Hunter may add 1 additional die to their attack roll.

STEALTHY 3
When an unengaged Wulfling Hunter is attacked with a normal or special attack, add 3 defense dice to the defending Wulfling.

I think this provides some good story telling on the card, without the need for their bio but the bio will still enhance it. This preserves good, plain thematic abilities for hunting and it still creates a useful playstyle that doesn't involve running away. Theoryscaping from my end says that you will develop this army slowly due to being a 2 man unit, then you have the ability to "bite back" if you get engaged and act as a 4 man whenever you survive any attacks.

This does mean that you may want to function as a 4 man but it will require you to survive an attack so you can provide some backup. It has the bones of a lot of the original idea still which is surprising but they can act like support for other builds. I think this would be profitable to test and have ready for when I get yay/nay votes for what is currently in the SoV.

Last edited by Shiftrex; April 15th, 2021 at 04:18 PM.
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  #63  
Old April 15th, 2021, 03:08 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)

Another Idea that just came from a friend is the idea of "sighting" an enemy which may be more fun than the engaged requirement.

WULFLING PACK HUNTING / PREY SIGHTED?
Before taking a turn with the Wulfling Hunters, if there is an enemy figure within 3 clear sight spaces of any Wulfling Hunter then you may move and attack with up to 4 Wulfling Hunters.
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  #64  
Old April 15th, 2021, 06:21 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)

These are some possible workshopped directions that I could take with the Hunters, just brainstorming to figure out what the best way to proceed forward with them is. If anyone has any input or preferences, please let me know i plan to keep working hard on this unit.


WULFLING HUNTERS

GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = WULFLING
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = HUNTERS
PERSONALITY = FEARSOME
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 50

V1.

WULFLING FEROCITY
Each turn that you take with the Wulfling Hunters you may attack with up to 6 Wulfling Hunters that you control.

PACK TACTICS
Wulflings attacking a figure that is engaged with a Wulfling Hunter may add 1 additional die to their attack roll.

STEALTHY 3
When an unengaged Wulfling Hunter is attacked with a normal or special attack, add 3 defense dice to the defending Wulfling Hunter.

V2.

PACK HUNT
After moving and before attacking, count the number of engaged Hunters you control. You may move this number of unengaged Hunters you control that did not move this turn up to 3 spaces each.

TAKE DOWN PREY
Before attacking, choose up to two enemy figures engaged with one or more Wulfling Hunters you control. Instead of attacking normally, you can attack with any number of Wulflings engaged to each of those figures this turn.

STEALTHY 3
When an unengaged Wulfling Hunter is attacked with a normal or special attack, add 3 defense dice to the defending Wulfling Hunter.

V3.

PREPARE AMBUSH
Before taking a turn with the Wulfling Hunters you may move a Hunter Hero or Wulfling Hero that you control 5 spaces.

PACK TACTICS
Hunters attacking a figure that is engaged with a Wulfling Hunter may add 1 additional die to their attack roll.

STEALTHY 3
When an unengaged Wulfling Hunter is attacked with a normal or special attack, add 3 defense dice to the defending Wulfling Hunter.
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  #65  
Old April 15th, 2021, 08:25 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
PACK HUNT
After moving and before attacking, count the number of engaged Hunters you control. You may move this number of unengaged Hunters you control that did not move this turn up to 3 spaces each.

TAKE DOWN PREY
Before attacking, you may choose up to two enemy figures engaged with one or more Wulfling Hunters you control. Instead of attacking normally, you can attack with any number of Wulflings engaged to each of those figures this turn.

STEALTHY 3
When an unengaged Wulfling Hunter is attacked with a normal or special attack, add 3 defense dice to the defending Wulfling Hunter.
My one concern with Take Down Prey is that while it does allow many attackers, it also limits them to two kills. Here's an alternate take that opens it up a little without overwhelming anything they're already targeting any more than it already is:

Quote:
TAKE DOWN PREY
Before attacking, choose up to two any number of enemy figures engaged with one two or more Wulfling Hunters you control. Instead of attacking normally, each Wulfling Hunter engaged to each of those figures this may attack this turn.
(I also reworded the last sentence a bit because the intent is that 3 WH engaged with a Rat would all get to be attackers for the turn even if that Rat Scatters away, and thus if a different Rat Scattered into engagement with them any who hadn't attacked yet would still be eligible to attack that Rat.)

I like how this power set works together. Pack Hunt says "we found prey, come and get it" and also allows a(n alpha) Hunter Hero to engage and sit on a target to keep moving other Hunters. Then Take Down Prey embodies the team effort to kill targets of any size. The combination of these powers means you'll want to engage the same enemy with multiple figures, strengthening the pack mentality (in contrast to the Fire Ants it borrows from, who want to spread out to sting and roll the swarm over as many targets as possible). And by selectively isolating and systematically eliminating prey, you free up Wulflings to get their Stealthy bonus while they wait and stalk and set up the next Pack Hunt.


Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set!
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  #66  
Old April 15th, 2021, 09:06 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)

Odd as it is to say, my favorite rendition of this unit remains the original version. These other ones have weird swarming designs that feel out of place for what should probably be a shark/assassin unit. This is probably to make up for the lack of Hunter Bonding after Dok's recommendation against it in the SoV chat. But y'know, maybe... he's... wrong? I can't agree that the pool of Hunters is nearly as messy as the Relentless heroes one, and it could probably be easily tightened by limiting it to Large Hunters the way the Death Chasers do. That only eliminates Van Nessing and the Shadow Hound.

Overall I think this unit might've been workshopped to death. A camel is a horse made by committee. There's so many different ideas and powers here; maybe you should look back at what originally made you want to make this unit in the first place. Take the original powers and tighten 'em up. If the Dwarves' Strategic Bonding doesn't feel right then maybe you could borrow from the Mohican's War Cry instead. If Silent Stalkers is too strong then maybe make enemies have to be within 2-3 spaces instead of engaged. And so on and so forth. The previous design was very close to being approved for testing—I wouldn't dismiss all of it away so quickly. Somewhere in the ether there is an SoV-approved version of this card that still aligns with your creative vision.

~TAF,

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

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  #67  
Old April 15th, 2021, 09:20 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)

Thankyou for looking and for commenting I think you have a good point. I'll do some work and testing for about a week and see where it goes. Never a bad thing to return to the original design and make smaller adjustments. I'll look at that card and see what I can do with it.

Moving from Silent Stalkers to a version with Stealthy isnt a bad change... neither is just requiring an enemy to get a bit closer with a space limitation. I thought about that last night a bit. And the closer I stay to the original, the less work there is in theory. I'm glad someone liked the original as much as I did. Cutting out Van Nessing and Shadow Hound by focusing on large heroes wouldnt be bad at all.
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  #68  
Old April 16th, 2021, 03:57 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/6/21... WULFING updates!)



Latest draft. I think this one returns to the original design, does all the things that I originally wanted to do and is really fun to play. I'll be doing some test recording on my blog this week and next I think.

-> Scent of Blood: Does everything that the original Hunter's Howl did except it requires you to wound a figure (as opposed to the Durgeth's destroy or the original's engagement requirement). There is no more avoidance of attacking to get more activations, this ability now rewards you for a successful hunt and brings a lot more depth/flexibility than it appears to.

You can use this ability to retreat after teaming up to kill a target, or you can use it to advance the same 2 Wulflings after killing prey or you can involve other Wulflings or a Hunter Hero. This is pretty cool because you can use it to team up on an enemy hero if you can at least "draw blood" which gives you a good chance of taking it down. Also gives you some interesting choices to make with squads in terms of aggression or retreat or development. It makes the unit much more splashable than it was without sacrificing anything, just requires you to get some damage through.

-> Stealthy: Definitely not as good as Silent Stalker but still effective vs range, 6 (7) defense isn't a joke and should be a good tool to use against ranged commons or special attacks. Ability turns off when you are engaged which incentivizes you to attack, finish a hunt and then get back into stealthmode instead of lingering in multiple engagements.

This should encourage flowing gameplay.

-> Hunter Heroes: We still have good synergy here, there are still bonus turns but we tightened up not only our requirement (which communicates a more specific theme) but we also narrowed our focus. Medium/Small Hunter Heroes no longer get to play with Wulfing, sorry Nessing and Shadow Hound D:

Our theme is drawing blood, hunters being drawn to that scent or action of spilling blood and continuing the hunt (which was my alternate name for the ability, The Hunt). Interesting thing to note is that when you go through the list of large hunter heroes, it's reasonable to assume that spilling blood would be something they could catch the scent of or would be interested in.

Arktos - Wolf Humanoid, definitely can smell blood.
Dund - A doggin hunter should definitely be able to smell blood/be interested in it.
Feral Troll - Blood Frenzy and trolls have an insane sense of smell from dnd lore, no need to say more.
Himmelskralle - A ravenous monster that thrives off hunting, killing and eating would definitely key into this.
Master of the Hunt - I was almost stuck looking for a reason for this guy to key into a hunt happening or blood being spilled beyond his name and then I realized that his species justifies it fine. Firbolg is a type of giant, or more accurately giant-kin like ogres and trolls... which are all known for their smell from dnd down to old fairy tales. While it might be the biggest one you have to look for, I didn't have to look far to see that it fits without issue.

Arguably the two Hunter Heroes that just got cut out with the size requirement were the ones that made the least sense anyways. One being a vampire/monster hunter and the other being a shadow construct.

Also, the unengaged requirement for figures using Scent of Blood makes sense beyond trying to limit Himmelskralle (who is an independent lady that doesn't require monitoring) because there is no real reason for the Hunter to be focused on/care about blood spilling if they are already fighting a unit (which is what being engaged communicates in the first place).
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  #69  
Old April 25th, 2021, 05:25 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/16/21... Hunters Updated)

Have gotten to play a few games with this unit, introducing some new people to the game. Plays really, well and is really fun for everyone that has played with it. For the official version I'm going to drop interaction with other hunters when I submit soon and substitute it for a "Wulfling Hero" instead of a hunter hero to avoid things being shoehorned in and to try to pass the SoV. I don't think it will pass an official source like them while it has the potential to engage hunter heroes in any normal, fulfilling capacity.

At home, I'm going to keep them as they are because I find it to be a lot of fun

Notes: Have tested them a few times at both 25 and 30 points a piece (50 and 60 card price respectively). 30 per figure feels too taxing on a melee unit that cannot replenish and wants to fight. Gotta get some cool heroes going for them now

Submission ready card looks like:


Last edited by Shiftrex; May 4th, 2021 at 01:03 PM.
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  #70  
Old May 4th, 2021, 07:52 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (4/16/21... Hunters Updated)

- - - - - - -

QILDRIN
Mystical Dragon


Frontal Assault - Heroes from Far and Wide (2/4)



The figure used is Otto, Fairie Dragon #026 from Waterdeep Dungeon of the Mad Mage.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!


CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!


DESIGN NOTES:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • GREENSCALE WARRIORS : LOYALTY TO THE LIZARD KING
    As a large, unique dragon Qildryn may be chosen as the Lizard King for this ability.

Synergy Benefits Offered
  • n/a

Comments and ideas welcome! Qildryn has had some minor tweaks and I think the price point is good but I'm overall unsure. She is a little evasive but relies on a d20 roll for a breath weapon which will never be as reliable as the other dragons. Hopefully this opens up some opportunities for me to work on units that appeal to some different aesthetics in scape.
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  #71  
Old May 4th, 2021, 08:22 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (5/4/21... Qildryn)

I really like Euphoria Breath. Invisibility sounds like it should be Partial Invisibility or something like that; perhaps Indistinct?


Last edited by Taeblewalker; May 4th, 2021 at 09:07 PM.
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  #72  
Old May 4th, 2021, 08:43 PM
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Re: Middle of No-Where Customs (5/4/21... Qildryn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker View Post
I really like Euphoria Breath. Invisibility sounds like it should Partial Invisibility or something like that; perhaps Indistinct?
Good point! I'll play with the name and try to find a better equivalent ^^

It used to be no hitzones but I've come to realize that isn't much fun for some players.
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