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  #7717  
Old June 20th, 2022, 08:09 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Ok well thanks for looking.

Maybe that group will work on a new version, unsure. I know that I've enjoyed the current one.
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  #7718  
Old June 20th, 2022, 11:06 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I thought it was an intriguing nominee and a clever approach to problems that other green wymrling designs have had, but I do not think that BBF's and dysole's votes are unreasonable.

Oh well. Many thanks to everyone who put in the work to bring such a good and interesting green wyrmling to the SoV, even if it did not ultimately meet the standards of the panel.

I suspect that what the SoV has witnessed, over all the years of turning away GW designs, may be the very reason why we didn't get a green wyrmling in the first place.

Thanks again to those who created it, and to all of those who submit their designs to the crucible that is this process.

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  #7719  
Old June 20th, 2022, 11:52 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Hasn’t failed yet. Currently 3-3, if I’m reading correctly.

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  #7720  
Old June 20th, 2022, 02:09 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Drow Assassin has received 6 Yea Votes to review (wriggz, Scytale, Vydar_XLIII, vegietarian18, BiggaBullfrog, and Dysole) and moves forward in the process.
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  #7721  
Old June 21st, 2022, 05:45 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

As far as responses to the Green Wyrmling:

1) Sequence of events. It's the exact same thing as Master of the Hunt's Mortal Strike (except on defense), and I've never heard any complaints about that sequence of events. There's also Sujoah/Estivara and other similar precedents.

2) Lacking the simplicity of full Counter Strike. The only way to make a fledgling version if CS is to change it, be it this version or one that only hits small/medium, or Commons, or what have you. However, I also believe this stems at least in part from the way the power was reworded. Here it is re-aligned with CS's wording (thanks to @Captain Stupendous ):
Quote:
FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, for each excess shield that was rolled by this Green Wyrmling, roll one unblockable attack die against the attacking figure.
Honestly this is also something I would've expected more of a "we'll handle it in editing" response to.

3) Complexity. Given the above, literally the only difference between FCS and CS is rewording the last phrase (much like a Common-only version would be a simple rewording of CS found on a Samurai). Finally, the Drow Assassin which received 6 yeas is a much wordier and more complex card, yet here we are.*

If you don't like the Green Wyrmling, fine, but so far downvotes have been cast with, IMO, pretty flimsy reasons.



*Since I brought it up, I'll go ahead and say I dislike Shadow Shift being "before or after" moving, since it vastly increases the number of possible outcomes a player must consider every single time they want to move one. Pick one and prevent a lot of analysis paralysis.


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  #7722  
Old June 21st, 2022, 06:36 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

First of all, I echo @BiggaBullfrog 's comments about the whole concept of a Green Wyrmling. Consider me Mike Tomlin: I do not care. I don't need a Baby Charos, I don't need a Poison Breath Wyrmling, I don't need any of it. I'm not opposed but I'm not going to give GW any special consideration about "filling a hole in the canon".

And I'm sure you know this, Necro, but it's completely apples to oranges to compare the GW to the Drow Assassin. There's already 4 Wyrmlings and a Charos worth of precedent, for good and for ill (we all know both the good and the ill here). The Drow Assassin is much more paving its own way, and so has looser bounds.

The wording change doesn't move the needle for me, and if you think it does then you're missing Bigga's point.

I think some of the concern is that Wyrmlings all have a mechanically limited version of their grownup's power: less targets, less rolls, in general you do less things. With the submitted version of the Green Wyrmling, the mechanical complexity of the Fledgling power is greater than that of the original. So it's not a complexity concern in a vacuum, but by way of comparison and precedent.

In general, I think this was a hasty submission. Kinda a stupid thing to say when it's been 10 years in the making, but this was a group custom submitted without any group finalization. And judging by the continued debate from submitters/workshoppers and judges alike in this thread, coming to a consensus would make way more sense.

I vote at least until you guys can huddle up and agree on this or another version.

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  #7723  
Old June 21st, 2022, 08:15 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
There's already 4 Wyrmlings and a Charos worth of precedent, for good and for ill (we all know both the good and the ill here).

...

I think some of the concern is that Wyrmlings all have a mechanically limited version of their grownup's power: less targets, less rolls, in general you do less things.
And this Wyrmling follows all precedent as a mechanically limited version of CS. It does half as much damage, which is incredibly simple to understand. One could argue the Black Wyrmling is mechanically more complex than Braxas because after you roll you have to count up wounds to determine if the figure is destroyed or not, instead of just destroying the figure. But again, and far more importantly, you cannot limit CS mechanically without changing something like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
In general, I think this was a hasty submission. Kinda a stupid thing to say when it's been 10 years in the making, but this was a group custom submitted without any group finalization. And judging by the continued debate from submitters/workshoppers and judges alike in this thread, coming to a consensus would make way more sense.

I vote at least until you guys can huddle up and agree on this or another version.
There was enough agreement for the Wyrmling to get submitted, then there should be votes on the submission. I can easily count at least eight members who support this version of Fledgling Counter Strike specifically within the last year (including four on Discord within the last week).


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Last edited by NecroBlade; June 21st, 2022 at 08:35 PM. Reason: eight not six
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  #7724  
Old June 21st, 2022, 08:38 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Yeah this version was left dormant in the thread pending a corresponding available mini. This version has the best version of Fledgling Counterstrike that the group collectively came up with.

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  #7725  
Old June 22nd, 2022, 02:53 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I respect the vote of the judge and did not participate to the GW design. But as a player my feeling was more "smart way to do a little charos, I want to give it a try". And the comment on the complexity of the power seem off for me, because with 4 defense, the power will not trigger at each attacks, and when it trigger the manipulation is pretty simple because while you are counting your shield, you take in hand and reroll directly those exceeding

I understand the worry of this being a bad manipulation, but I am feeling this is something that can be verify in few playtest, and if a group of people agree on it's not bad while playing it, the argument have more weight than theoricraft

(And imo, i don't know d&d much, i don't care the look of the figure, like star wars droid or other stuff)

Again it's just a comment, I respect your choice

Last edited by Zeldarck; June 22nd, 2022 at 02:35 PM.
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  #7726  
Old June 22nd, 2022, 11:32 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Green Wyrmling has received 4 Nay votes to review (Scytale, BiggaBullfrog, Dysole, and superfrog) and is removed from the process.
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  #7727  
Old June 22nd, 2022, 12:24 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I can easily count at least eight members who support this version of Fledgling Counter Strike specifically within the last year (including four on Discord within the last week).
Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Yeah this version was left dormant in the thread pending a corresponding available mini. This version has the best version of Fledgling Counterstrike that the group collectively came up with.
Curious if these facts flip @superfrog 's vote?


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  #7728  
Old June 24th, 2022, 04:44 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I would like to submit 2 separate designs of mine for SoV review. Both designed partially intended for SoV. I had tested each a handful of times and found both to be self evident, not running into rules problems or breaking anything. The abilities stay within what has been seen before with a few minor differences in their activation and keep thematic to the characters they embody.

First, we have Phoah Ra.


The origin of this design dates and would be nearly unrecognizable to what it is today. Upon rework it has been the most "returned to the drawing board" heroscape design of my time. Each piece in the design eventually arrived at an "Aha" moment, feeling content, and with much needed insight from peers along the way.

His Crypt G. movement bonding allows a binding to his tying themed troop of choice and I feel is thematic as the Pharaoh sends his mummys to tie up those who carelessly delve within his tomb. His speed of 5 sets him apart from the slow and late minded mummies. This difference and allowing to move up to 2 guardians allows strategic placement and map coverage/control to stay accessible without having too much of an edge.

Phoah has a decent punch of attack 4 with 5 life and a weaker 3 defense, losing the crypt guardians defensive ability 'tough'. This lower viability allows a much smoother transition for Cursed Spirit, perhaps the highlight of the design. An absolute reverse of the previous viking spirit buffs. To make it more interesting, and of an end all, a movement reduction was also added which fits the theme and helps the mummys chase the cursed. An attack reduction spirit would never see the light of day.

The last of main changes was a shift to a previously seen ability, paralyzing stare 15. For Phoah Ra, this ability works in tandem with the Grypt Guardians Curse of the Mummy allowing for potentially lower rolls needed. And with an attack of 4, it can be devastating though not excessive. Minor comparison can be made with Me-Burq-Sa who has a ranged of 6, attack 3, and a stable paralyzing stare 16, range equal to his range.

Phoah Ra bolsters the presence of a king, or cursed pharaoh, whom I'd be silly not submit with the time and dedication put into him.


Second, Aculanda, Priestess of the Moon Tribe.


This design was sparked in the same ambition of others before me in the attempt of reeling in the world of the Kyrie of the Moon Tribe. Most of the lore of these kyrie from what I can remember is teased in the Swarm of the Marro campaign, most notably during the later part of Sgt Drake Alexander and companys journey. They are spotted flying overhead, at first appearing in shadow like birds or carrion awaiting wearied prey. When they meet, they are not of the such kind or of any insect like form. Instead they are rather ornate with a deep red skin (a feature which could be brushed, glazed onto the figure's face if desired).

The pose of the figure is dynamic, "moonly", and fits what is my favorite ability of the design. Cyclonic Gust 10. It functions in the same way as quite a few other abilities seen before. Hoplitron's shield bash for 10 for instance. In difference, it is ranged, can only be used on a figure adjacent to a figure she attacked and can move the small or medium figure up to 3 levels higher. This allows it to be used well as a utility, both for your own figures and against your enemies.
The stigma around moving opponents figures when it comes to lava on the board is real and with it being range, may be moreso, but since it is a figure 'Adjacent' to the attacked figure, the opponent still has some freedom in preventing this. 55% chance.

I forget what the rules are when it comes to attacking your own figures. If I could, I would add the detail that she could not attack her own teammates since she is a priestess. Which brings me to another segment about text spacing.

Condensing Priestess Aculanda's text section was a feat in itself, given that she has the notorious chunk of flying text. Eventually, enough cuts were made to place it within a reasonable amount.

Here is a brief list of existing text heavy cards with the number of text lines in them
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Cyprien and Iskra at a whopping 30-31 lines of text. And Master Win who didn't have so much text suffered from poor sizing and formating.

Aquilla's blessing a second iffy topic on the same card??
Healing. Aculanda has access to healing one wound on a small or medium figure within 4 spaces *once per round*. And she cannot heal herself as per usual. What else would befit her Priestess status? She blends in as a mix between kelda and raelin in traits and also quite similar to Calibrax in function, though still leans towards being less compative in her own rite. Also, she remains within the abilities and stat mold of the other kyrie heroes.


Availability:
Last I checked earlier this year, there were plenty of both figures, seeing as they are both quite new to the market.
I'm not sure what that looks like now, but I am sure they are still in production and can check up more on that in depth later if you so desire.


I hope you enjoy the ideas put forth. These are the only 2 customs of mine I believe are worth running this course, so please give them the consideration or time of day you would any other.
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