NO POSTING - Heroscape 2.0 News from Designers and Staff

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For ease of catching up on everything that's been written so far, this thread should be reserved only for direct quotes from AH staff and the Heroscape "War Council." Commentary should quote from this thread into other threads.

Information I collected at GenCon from Craig Van Ness and Chris Nadeau (aka Encarmine, the Creative Director for Avalon Hill):

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Existing generals remain.
Hinted at new factions. (I assume there are definitely new generals/factions)
Craig is a permanent part of the team.
"Look to see how [Hasbro] interacts with the HeroQuest community to see how they might interact with C3V/SoV."
Figures will be unpainted because "deco" costs would put the starter set at $400+ Deco alone is more expensive than the figures.
First set will most likely be all unique figures.
First set will include an unspecified quantity of Heroscape terrain (same molds as the original sets).
TBD on reprinting any old sets

Source: I am at GenCon and talked to Chris Nadeau

Edit: also, he emphasized that they are prioritizing accessibility, they want people to be able to get into the game

Edit2: he also would not say when we should expect to be able to give them money for these products; not even a "closer to 3 months or closer to 18 months" type of answer

Edit3: He also said "the story has progressed and the world has changed." Make of that what you will. It was in reference to generals/factions.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Terrain will be two-tone like the original game. TBD on whether there will be new terrains. Quantity of terrain in the new set is TBD.

Price point is TBD.

Dragon [in the picture] is leaning because it is waxed to the board so it doesn't get knocked over. It normally sits flat.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

CVN says he can't answer, but to look at how Avalon Hill approaches this kind of thing with their other games.

Before this he had pointed out to me that HeroQuest has a companion app that runs Zargon (the game master) for you.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

CVN can't say if it will be mass market, print on demand, game shops, etc...

Originally Posted by capsocrates

The terrain in the display is not necessarily what will be used in the set. They just grabbed some Heroscape terrain to put the figures on for display.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

A friend told me to ask about compatibility. I got these answers from Chris:
The new figures will be compatible with the old, and balanced to the same power scale for competitive play (with dok and DS involved I have no doubts about that).
He would not say whether there would be any new rules or rules tweaks, but said something about "listening to the community" on the need for rules clarifications or changes
He again said the terrain would be compatible

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I stopped by the booth again to ask about licensing other IPs.

They said they're holding off on that for now but obviously the game has great potential for it. Nadeau (the creative director who came over from the toys division but says he is a gamer himself) mentioned that they already have a lot of IPs and licences through Hasbro, Avalon Hill, TSR, WotC, etc. just to name a few.

He said they have the first two years of releases already planned out and in ideation, and are working on more. HeroQuest is planned out through 2025. ~700 days into HeroQuest that game already has their main box and a bunch of expansions (he pointed me to the entire 7' tall display case with 4 shelves dedicated to HeroQuest; I took pictures that I can try to post later).

He then went into the history of resurrecting the Avalon Hill brand inside Hasbro, how HeroQuest was the way they showed the executives they could make money off of gamer games and not just the millionth Monopoly clone.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I asked Craig about this today ... and he said there "probably" won't be a wash on the figures.

I also asked about target market and I was told that they can't comment on that yet but to watch the upcoming announcements closely.

--

Independently of all that, when Chris Nadeau saw me at the booth, he came over and told me that he dropped some hints (he wouldn't say about what) in the "stream" today. He said no one on site at GenCon seems to have caught the hints (I didn't even know there was a stream, so...). If y'all don't know what I'm talking about maybe you can look into it. Some kind of GenCon Hasbro stream.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I spent a few minutes yesterday telling them my idea for terrain pieces that would help with setup time to make the game more accessible. They made some comments about different types of terrain molds (particularly larger single pieces along the lines of the castle) being really expensive at each level of production (down to the weight and space taken up in the box IIRC) but they *DID* say that they have lots of cool plans for terrain stuff.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Since HeroQuests's return was announced September 2020 via crowdfunding (almost two years ago) and then actually shipped late 2021 (my source on these dates is

the wikipedia page

the wikipedia page

), HeroQuest has gotten all of this content:









They more or less said that we should expect similar amounts of content over a similar timeframe for HeroScape.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

The other "news" I got was just this, which may not be "news" at all at this point:
they wouldn't say whether the card art will feature painted minis or whether the cards will have the same shape.

CVN did say that they want to have miniatures that are best in the market in terms of quality (I forget his exact words but they were superlative). They didn't want to just have "average" minis for Heroscape 2.0.

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Some of the earliest "news" we got after GenCon:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Hi, all.

I’m excited to say that I’ve been authorized to report that the minis will be shaded by general. It will not be a sea of gray. The miniatures will be in the schemes of their generals.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

The terrain will be two tone, like the old terrain, and will be completely compatible with it.

Chris Nadeau/Encarmine has had a lot to say on Discord:

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Accessibility is one of our core tenants. If we don’t all work together to bring the next generation in, then all will be lost and we’ll see it shoved back into the Hasbro vault again. NOTHING will please me more then seeing posts of kids engaging with the old guard and learning this game.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Bucket list would be some old obscure, ignored guy sitting in some dark corner of GenCon decades from now, and some 40 something comes up to me and shakes my hand and says Heroscape’s rebirth in the 2020’s was the catalyst moment that changed them forever into a lifelong gamer, and now they are teaching their kids to game.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

The Heroscape War Council signed up for this epic quest without hesitation, and their responsive goes beyond just duty to make a great game. There is some serious personal passion going into the work and I believe there is a sense of personal responsibility by all of them to do right by this community and ensure everyone who has kept this flame burning is rewarded with a gameplay they can be rally behind and feel has been designed with everyone’s voices heard and considered in the work. Be proud of your community, your people, your family.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

No miniature count has been communicated, and those numbers are definitely wrong.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Who said there was a master set? ... AoA is the epoch like SOTM

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Contents are finalized

Originally Posted by Encarmine

We have multiple sculptors working on the project

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Craig provides what is called “sculpting inputs” which are the turns based on the final concept drawings.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Concept sketches are generated, like the ones you saw today. We base those on a combination of the War Council’s unit rules, combined with Craig and my insane thoughts on visual language (provide general art direction on concept). It then goes through rounds with the concept artists (like Max Dunbar) to produce a visual story we want. Then it goes to another artist who does gesture drawing that have to function as a test for a viable sculpted pose (meaning it can be pulled correctly from a mold) then those two pieces go to an artist who produces the turns of the character. Those in turn go to the sculpting team that produces the STL files of the miniatures, that then get grown in our rapid prototyping lab, evaluated by Craig and I and approved to go to the factory for the creation of the tools.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Unless I’m completely mistaken, Max has done every model in the Dawn Raider Syndicate faction.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

There is a bit of a Marketing strategy behind how much is said each week, what is held back etc. be patient with us, the development team doesn’t get to decide the rules of engagement, but are asked to execute them. It will never be enough.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Exactly. So much noise and nothing to really follow. You all are the exception, but ask outside this sphere of hardcore fans and historians and you will find a majority that fail to even understand most aspects of the story. It is very hard to follow, and full of contradictions. Took Ryder, Craig and I alot of time to unravel some of the tangle.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I really enjoy making the Heroquest Lore Videos

Originally Posted by Encarmine

#facts

Originally Posted by Encarmine

that's kind of the point. This is YOUR GAME Heroscapers. The galaxy is going back to war for you!

Regarding the D&D "epoch" being canon:

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I think it’s obvious to say that yes it was canon at the time, but that the story took several turns away from being uniquely Heroscape and became instead a derivative of DnD lore instead of being its own thing anymore. I think the Wizards team made every effort to create a linear continuation of the story, but had to weave it into the DnD universe and compromise anything that would conflict with their intellectual property. This creates a bit of a “mud pie” for Heroscape as its own brand, and may require us to unravel certain elements from that era to untangle those two stories and make Heroscape unique again, while at the same time providing new fans some degree of comprehensible lore without needing to do hours of research in old databases and forums to understand the story.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I can say there is no interest to “delist” any viable units from previous releases of the game, but we may simply avoid incorporating those units into the narrative going forward to avoid those entanglements and clean up the story a bit for everyone.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I think Valkrill and Vydar’s narratives may be the hardest part to work through. Craig and I have some ideas.

Regarding reprints:

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I won’t say never, but I will say it’s currently not a priority for the development team to invest in recreating 1:1 miniatures that players may already possess in their collections. I will also point out that factories do not keep tooling in some magically weather controlled warehouse ready to immediately load back onto the machines at a moment’s notice. Most tools become damaged and pitted over an extended amount of time and become useless for reproduction.

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Cont.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 01 - "THE DAWNRAIDER SYNDICATE" A first look at our initial concept boards associated with one of Heroscape's new playable factions for the upcoming release of Age Of Annihilation. The DAWNRAIDER SYNDICATE represented an amazing opportunity to recognize some of our previous fan favorite species in the new product line, while also creating a platform to experiment with new creatures and unit types. Enjoy:

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 02 - FACTION LORE - The mercenaries of the syndicate call no Valkyrie their master, refusing to bend the knee to any of the warring factions on Valhalla. With motivations as varied as the composition of those species that call the Syndicate their own, the Dawn Raiders take to the battlefields of Valhalla for whichever side pays their high price for temporary loyalty. Often found in the shadows of the main advance, they fight for more than just the spoils, booty or carnage, but because they enjoy the challenge of battle. The Dawn Raiders are led by a charismatic council of captains, who collectively function as the Syndicates governing body in deciding the path of the Dawn Raiders, negotiate terms with the other factions on Valhalla, which contracts to honor, confirm new members into the group etc. With such a diverse mix of characters and specialties within their ranks, there is always a willing crew available for the required task at hand, coming into each battle hard, and making their impact felt, fighting like madmen.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 02 FACTION POWERS - To highlight the awesome powers and synergy between our unique squads and the Dawn Raider Syndicate heroes, lets take a look how these "Monster Slayers" and "The Widow" work together to overwhelm their enemies on the field of battle:
THE CAPTAIN’S WAY - POWER OF UNIQUE SQUAD
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Captain you control to be their chosen assigned Captain. While within 4 clear sight spaces of their chosen Captain, roll one additional defense die against attacks from non-adjacent figures. Before taking a turn with ("The Monster Slayers"), you may first take a turn with their chosen Captain or a Dawn Raider hero you control.

PIRATE COMMANDER - POWER OF UNIQUE HERO
If there is an Order Marker on ("The Widow"), all Dawn Raider figures you control gain one additional attack die when attacking adjacent figures.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

So, the pirate faction is one that I spent a lot of time with. What you're looking at here is a couple of powers that are (of course) not final, but are pretty far along in the design stage. "The Widow" is a pirate commander, and the "Monster Hunters" are a pirate squad.

One of the coolest things about pirates, both real and fictional, is the colorful personalities of the captains. So, when setting out the basic structure of the faction, I wanted the relationship of captain and crew to take center stage. What you're looking at here is what I came up with: a sort of bonding power, that interacts with (among others) captains, who in turn might reflect effects back onto the pirates themselves. It's sort of like a Greenscales army, if only the dragons/lizardfolk synergy was a two way street.

I can't reveal entire designs, but I can talk about the faction a bit. I have a few minutes now and I'll have more later.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Cap:

1. They are pirates, as you now see. The “Dawnraider Syndicate” is the name of the faction.

2. This squad is unique. There are other Syndicate squads, though.

3. Yes they have other powers.

4. Captain is a new thing.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Currently 3. Some people already correctly discerned that we are looking at a multi-species squad here.

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AH staff did not weigh in on the tournament scene, but on the subject of proxying, Nadeua/Encarmine did have the following to say...

Originally Posted by Encarmine

It’s first and foremost a question for the tournament players. Proxy miniatures can be confusing to newer players, and lead to even unintentional unconscious bias when the models are not 1:1 for true line of sight. Is that something the community wants to deal with? It’s not simply an issue of a company wanting sales, it’s the possibility that the fairness of competitive gameplay can so easily be put into question, and then we lose so much more then the subjectivity of a cooler looking sculpt on the tabletop.

It’s a difficult topic. As a 40K player for decades, I feel like I’ve lived through all this in a prior existence.

You all will ultimately determine those answers

If the fans want tournaments, tournaments there shall be. If fans want proxies in those tournaments, organizers will bend. If fans rage on unfair competitive advantages, proxies will get banned.

If fans want Grut War Mammoths…

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 03 - RECOGNITION OF OUR PAST AND A PATH TOWARDS OUR FUTURE – For almost two decades, players have endeared themselves to the faces and forms of so many interesting personalities on the surface of Valhalla. When we initiated the project and started development, we made the decision to drastically expand our universe. Giving existing players an opportunity to build out a world they have only seen a small fraction of, while also providing new players a chance to own something themselves. We wanted every new player to feel they possess a level field to begin their collections alongside the original generation of Heroscapers. However, this game means so much to so many players, and the memories it has created for fans are simply the stuff of strategy gaming legend. To that point, we wanted to ensure existing fans were able to affirm that those creatures and narratives they loved could live on into this new era. The Dawn Raider Syndicate provided us with that perfect opportunity to reintroduce many of our most beloved and recognizable species back into The Battle For All Time, reminding us all that the war never ended on Valhalla, and grounding our next chapter in a foundation of our past, while also providing everyone something fresh to spark their imaginations for our future together.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 03 – BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE, BUT FULL OF NEW TWISTS – For so many strategy gamers, HEROSCAPE represented something different and accessible. It reached new players and jump-started a generation of gamers looking to plunge into tabletop wargaming who could stand proud over their armies of battle and apply their competitive spirit. It was a REQUIREMENT from Day 1, that anything we produced would be backwards compatible with existing rule systems and game mechanics. However, it couldn’t simply be “more of” and the team took on the task with zeal to unlock greater depth in the range of abilities and powers. For the team, nothing excites us more then to see how YOU will dive into all new army builds, combinations and strategies, using all new powers to once again march to war upon the surface of Valhalla. And, for those who love their historical ties, perhaps a closer look is needed.

A MASTER OF DISGUISE
If (Pirate Queen Bonny) is targeted with a normal or special attack, roll a 20-sided die. If you roll a 12 or higher, the attacking figure may not attack (Pirate Queen Bonny).

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

What we're looking at here is more parts of the pirate faction, aka the Dawn Raider Syndicate.

There are pirates all over the world, and pirates historically and famously pressgang civilians into service. So it makes sense that our pirates - Heroscape pirates - would be a mishmash of this and that. What a perfect way to include some of our old friends! So here you see "Marro Pirate," a Marro unique hero. I'm reluctant to answer, at this moment, whether we're looking at a Captain or not, but he's a unique pirate hero, so certainly it's a reasonable guess that he might be.

You're also looking at another human, "Pirate Queen Bonny," a master of disguise. Over the course of the coming releases you will see a *lot* of new members of the Heroscape family - new genres, new races, and so on - so the pirates are also an effective way to make sure that we have humans present in the new set.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Of course!

And art being what it is, I won’t say that it’s *not* a “space pirate” faction, but I prefer thinking of it as a “Valhalla pirate” faction.

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Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 04 – Wow, those dragons grow up really fast don't they... (Have a great weekend everybody!)

Originally Posted by Encarmine

30 figures? Why would we bring back Heroscape after all these years and release 30 figures?

Originally Posted by KRUG!

I was in on that chat from the start this morning, encarmine was definitely implying more than 30 figures in the initial offering. It was not 100% clear if that was all masterset, or masterset + expansion pack/s. Definitely seems whatever is initially offered, in whatever format, will exceed 30 figs.

Regarding the shape of the army cards and what the community prefers (AH has discussed putting together a survey to get our feedback)...

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I’m extremely curious, because the data on this one points in multiple directions. Couldn’t really have the larger fan community weigh-in earlier without blowing the lid off all this.

What we’re seeing currently there is almost four equal perspectives: 1. The OG multi-hex. 2. A standard size playing card that can be sleeved. 3. A hybrid that is original to HS but doesn’t have quite the potential to get damaged like the originals. 4. No opinion.

And regarding a master set...

Originally Posted by Encarmine

I don’t believe anyone said “master set”

Master Set means something very specific to you all.

Need to wait and see.

Regarding shipping...

Originally Posted by Encarmine

And I think you’re relatively safe in Canada in terms of shipping destinations… just an educated guess.

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Minor point but worth having it in here from the discord servers:

Originally Posted by dok

We will do our best to make wording clear.

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Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 07 - "THE IRONCLAD COLLECTIVE" FACTION LORE - For eons unknown on their planet of Noxdorma, the Ironclad have been waging war using the cold logic of their data cogitators and the hardened steel of their inorganic weapon systems. The limitations and mortality of their organic species reforged and forgotten, as countless generations focused on perfecting their methods of absolute destruction. Every outcome on the battlefield is pre-calculated, every possible strategy is processed before the first shots are fired. The Collective’s military composition constantly adapts to new battlefield conditions, as they upgrade their cybernetics to counter enemy tactics, sometimes even relinquishing individuality to ameliorate themselves into combined monstrous war machines of searing intensity. Members of the Collective reflect their harsh philosophies of war in various death masks, creating metallic reflections of nightmares and creating a visual persona of fear and despair in the minds of their adversaries. Every potential edge in combat is analyzed, even the psychological advantages gained through uncompromising terror tactics.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 08 - "YOU NEED TO GET YOUR VITAMINS AND MINERALS FROM SOMEPLACE?" - After our decision to create a literal living blast furnace on tank treads, it proved incredibly fulfilling to figure out an accurate tabletop scale to properly allow this monstrosity to consume all manner of enemy combatants, turn them into molten slag, and leave the clinker across the battlefield. I mean really, what is more horrifying to witness? (and yes, it fits on a peanut base…sort of.)

The filename for this image includes "machine_gun_penguin"

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Some posts from yesterday.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

We “can” reprint, it is just simply not a priority, and we would need to recreate all the old tooling, so it would be new sculpts regardless.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

If memory serves. The Primadon Dawn Raider sculpt with the power maul melee weapon, was actually the very first sculpt we went to final on. When Craig and I saw that concept piece come in, both of us were just “Yah, this is going to blow their minds…APPROVED.”

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Administrative note: the OP has been updated with all the information I was able to glean from GenCon. If I missed anything that anyone else posted about from conversations at GenCon, please let me know and I will add it in there (I'm trying to keep this thread in roughly chronological order).

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Today's designer's notes

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 09 - “THE STRENGTH OF WALLS, DEPENDS ON THE COURAGE OF THOSE THAT GUARD THEM.” Wraithriders are the vanguard elite of an Ironclad advance, rushing ahead of the main force to break forward defenses and weaken morale before the enemy are overrun by the inexorable march of legions of ghastly cybernetic creatures. Their fast and aggressive flanking tactics force their adversaries into killing zones, where the rest of the Ironclad can apply their vast array of horrific firepower onto the beleaguered and hopeless.

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A minor confirmation from discord that we will be getting reveals grouped by faction.

Originally Posted by Encarmine

Thanks Chill, you have been paying attention

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Today's designer's notes

Originally Posted by Encarmine

DESIGNER'S NOTES - DAY 010 - Arachnophobia is a specific phobia brought about by the irrational fear of spiders. Thanatophobia is an intense fear of death or the dying process. Two horrific nightmares that go great together in hellish warzones of Valhalla. The Lich Lord commands massive battalions on behalf of it’s Valkyrie masters with an iron grip and the vicious neurotoxins of the Lich Lord’s own wicked creation. These vile injections most times augment and enhance the awesome powers of the Ironclad Collective, but not all survive the violent effects of these venomous fluids…but sacrifices must be made for absolute victory.