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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books. |
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#97
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
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#98
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
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Honestly my instinct is to add a D20 benefit for choosing friendly figures, but that's just adding 1 more layer of complexity on when I feel like he's already pretty maxed out on variables you have to consider. I think the fact that both of us misplayed him at some point is telling. (I realized it quick enough to fix it, so I didn't include it in the report because I hate admitting I made a mistake. ) So I really don't want to add more to consider onto the design. How does just raising him to 225 sound? That makes him a solid block with John at 350. |
#99
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
Sounds like a decent, simple enough change. The design is good, quirky, and fun. Just a lot of reading and rereading to make sure you get it right.
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#100
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
Cool. SP updated at 225.
I kinda like that a ton of the Vertigo classics (Doom Patrol, Constantine, Swamp Thing, and now Shade) can come in at odd point values. It’s just a fun little thing to show they’re “outside” of the main superhero genre. |
#101
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Change the Shading Man Army Test Map: Custom Units: Shade the Changing Man (225), Zatanna II (445) VS Batman I, Robin Tim, Batgirl Babara (450)
Spoiler Alert!
___________________________________________________________ Army Test Map: Custom Units: Shade the Changing Man (225), John Constantine, Deadman (515) VS Green Arrow Ollie, Red Arrow, Hawkgirl (525)
Spoiler Alert!
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Honestly I did not have a lot of fun with Shade, because he did nothing so often and the Changing Man power means he’s neutered often. In the end of game 1, there was finally a period where he could use Madness Vest fairly effectively and it was appropriately scary, but the limitations on it prevented too much chaos. I have no competitive concerns here, so I’d pass him if you’re happy with him. He’s just not my type of design and that’s okay. But I think he’d be less frustrating if he’s able to choose the same figure after a failed roll on Madness Vest, or if the -4 to Madness Vest on a skull was less brutal. My other thought was to reroll the die for Changing Man at the start or end of every round in addition to at the start of the game & when receiving wounds. So I’m cool with whatever basically, as long as the LD’s happy. It's worth noting I played in small point games too. Against higher point figures, swinging a wound their way is comparatively worth a lot more, meaning he would probably have felt better. |
#102
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
Thanks Archie!
I will say I think the current lot of JLD mainstays (Constantine, Zatanna, and Deadman) are all kind of tricky support figures that don't really throw a huge amount of offensive firepower, and Shade kinda fits into that camp too. It's something I'm hoping we can further expand with the faction by adding more combat-based characters like Swamp Thing or Black Orchid. But I generally haven't found the Shade/Constantine/Zatanna/Deadman builds to be super-effective, so I'm not surprised you didn't either. It seems like you had fairly bad luck while Karat had fairly good luck, and you both finished with fairly different impressions of the unit. I get the feelings of frustration, but I also feel a large part of that was mitigated in my games by playing him with turn efficiency units. It helps a lot if your whole turn isn't just Shade. He's technically lost 5/5 games since he was updated to this version, but he did pretty great in both Karat game, so it's really more like 3/5 losses. I guess I see 3 ways forward atm; 1) Lower his points back down. I think such a big jump this morning could've been an overreaction. 2) Lower the Madness Vest roll, maybe even as low as 9? 3) Lower the D20 subtraction on the skull option of Changing Man, maybe down to 2? Any thoughts? I'd be open for any of these options, as well as any combination of them. |
#103
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
I agree with that assessment, and I'd be fine with any of those options. My last game was definitely unlucky with a couple 1s.
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#105
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
On option 2 do you mean the wound flinging?
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#106
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
Yeah, lowering the D20 roll on that aspect.
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#107
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
Okay, here's what I'm thinking;
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#108
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Re: The Book of Shade the Changing Man (Public Playtesting)
That's the move I was gonna suggest. Sorry been a tad distracted this morning.....uh.....today
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