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  #253  
Old August 25th, 2021, 11:59 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Sorry for so many posts, but just want to say: it's SO EXCITING to see/feel all the energy being channeled through this revived WoS. Makes me happy.

Thanks to everyone involved — not only to the judges, but also to those who have nominated maps.
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  #254  
Old August 26th, 2021, 12:03 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Not sure if I'm allowed to nominate maps that are not my own...but one of my favorites is by 1Mmirg (who also happens to be a judge, so not sure he'll be able to nominate his own anyway?)...so it MUST be good right?

I've also decided to throw one of my "less conventional" maps into the ring for consideration.

Here goes nothin'!

High Ways or the Highway (jungle edition) by @1Mmirg

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I'm really glad to see this fine map nominated!
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  #255  
Old August 26th, 2021, 12:22 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhon2222 View Post
Sorry for so many posts, but just want to say: it's SO EXCITING to see/feel all the energy being channeled through this revived WoS. Makes me happy.

Thanks to everyone involved — not only to the judges, but also to those who have nominated maps.
No worries! Personally love seeing you around the forums.

Just wondering when you’ll be putting out a new map...
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  #256  
Old August 26th, 2021, 06:59 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

My first wave of reviews:

Highways and Dieways
This is THE classic tournament map. Though I was not playing Scape at the time this map was created, it is quite apparent that this map is largely responsible for the shift towards more balanced maps in general. The placement of LOS blockers, height, and road tiles throughout the map is very well done.

Ticalla Sunrise
For being partially asymmetrical, this map is excellent. There are certain situations when one side is better than the other depending on the units you are running, but the advantage is very minimal. I usually tend to strongly dislike inverse speed bumps (the one hex dips down into swamp water) because they favor range, but it works okay on this map. I do wish the side-by-side jungle bushes were spread out from each other, but I can live with it. Overall, the positives outweigh any potential negatives and it’s good enough.

Fulcrum
Fulcrum is a great map, but I don’t consider it as being among the best of the best. The level three height just to the front right of the start zone is the most problematic part of the design, closely followed by the placement of the water (even considering how sometimes you don’t sacrifice any movement when splashing your figures in water). I have seen so many games on this map turn into a game of “come at me, bro” due to range setting up on the level three height by the start zone. And with no glyphs, there doesn’t seem to be much incentive to move from that position if you’re running range into melee. The jungle placement is well done and helps approaching melee forces, as do a couple height positions, but I just don’t feel like it’s enough. A well-placed screen can be rough to punch through on this map as well.

Bad Moon Rising
My appreciation for this map has grown the more I play on it. At first, it seems problematic due to the “your height, my height” placement of the seven hex rock tiles, but I’ve never seen that be an issue in games on the map. The use of battlements and the amount of time it takes to pod up on those seven hexes serves to diminish the strength of the position. The map does the two different roads theme very well, has excellent shadow tile placement, and there is a great flow through the second level and middle of the map. Yeah, some of the battlements seem to be placed in weird spots, but overall, this one is a keeper.

Draugur
Overall, this is a great map – though I do have my nitpicks. The map pulls left out of the start zone. This is obviously mitigated by the fact that it is harder to get out of the start zone on that side, however, that level 2 area is still the best place to amass units during early development. I also don’t love the water tile placed inwards of the 6-hex glaciers on both sides. It serves to create even more of a chokepoint between the glaciers on that side. Fortunately, that particular choke point doesn’t seem relevant in most games. The map does have narrow lanes, but it’s a great map with interesting pathing and a good disbursement of height in relation to shadow tiles. I’ve only ever played it with power glyphs and will likely continue to do so.

Fire Isles
What this map offers is truly unique – it is a classic for good reason. However, in my opinion, ring-around-the-lava-pit-of-doom should not be a viable strategy for winning a game of Heroscape at the highest levels of play. Fast moving range can just too easily kite around the lava pit. I also don’t like glyph locations and the dip down into water before being able to approach glyphs on height – it makes strong glyph holders even more strong.

If You Can't Take the Heat...
This map is just so hard to move through – especially for armies that like to clump together, and for double based units. Games on this map feel like I’m fighting against the map as well as fighting my opponent. Range versus melee is rough, especially with such a good podding location to the left of the start zone and the difficulty of traversing through the map.

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Last edited by Flash_19; August 26th, 2021 at 09:54 PM. Reason: What spelling errors?
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  #257  
Old August 26th, 2021, 07:22 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Man, who elected these judges? These guys are harsh.
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  #258  
Old August 26th, 2021, 07:49 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
The current version must have been played at at least two tourneys, no matter how small the tweak. The point of this project is to recognize excellent maps- not to workshop them. That isn't to say that we won't offer any feedback, but that isn't the goal of the project.

We really don't want this to go the way of the SoV (nothing against that fine project), where people almost exclusively nominate their own units, get rejected, make one small tweak, resubmit, get rejected, make one more small tweak, get rejected... The tourney rule is there to prevent people from repeatedly trying to jam a map through.
Makes sense, and I like that a lot. Appreciate it!

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  #259  
Old August 27th, 2021, 10:29 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Hey all!

While it's gratifying to see all the attention the project is getting, the judges have quite a backlog to work through. For that reason we are instituting two new rules: one permanent, and one temporary.

The permanent new rule is that the 4 month timer only applies to the 6 oldest active nominees. Once one of them is resolved, the timer will start on the next-oldest available nominee. What that means is that at the moment, the timer is running on H&D, Embattled Fen, Ticalla Sunrise, Invasion, Fossil, and Quasatch Playground.

The temporary rule is that we're going to hit pause on accepting further nominations for a few months. We have a backlog to work though and it's better to keep things clear while we chew through it. Once we've tackled the BoV/ARV backlog there will be time to nominate some of the other longtime tournament favorites of the last 5 years.
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  #260  
Old August 29th, 2021, 06:36 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Here are a few more reviews based on going back through some of the BoV maps and refreshing my opinions on them.

By the way, I'm going to recuse myself from voting on my own maps for obvious reasons. Hopefully that won't cause an issue.

HIGWAYS AND DIEWAYS
An absolute classic map. This is probably the first map that really opened my eyes to what you could really accomplish with competitive design and how you a map design can really facilitate a compelling meta. Going back and revisiting it, I think it mostly holds up. The road isn't always as neatly incorporated on the map as I would like resulting in some dead zones of the map. But at the end of the day, the map plays great. I would always recommend this one. YES from me.

EMBATTLED FEN
I've never liked this map. I think GameBear is great and he's trying to get something unique out of this very unusual terrain set, but at the end of the day it's just not interesting to play on. Things get bogged down on the roads and the lack of LOS blockers removes too much tactical play. NO from me.

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  #261  
Old August 29th, 2021, 07:52 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Does this mean that Highways & Dieways has passed muster, and will be inducted into the WoS?!

If so, it feels like a big moment in the WoS's revival. Its first new inductee in five years, since 2016.
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  #262  
Old August 29th, 2021, 09:08 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Congratulations to @UranusPChicago - it looks like this map is finally getting the recognition it deserves.
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  #263  
Old August 30th, 2021, 11:00 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Can't See the Jungle
I hosted a game night recently with some newer players, and I had this map set up. All the people I invited over thought it looked amazing - and it absolutely does look awesome on the table. Dignan's efforts on this map are commendable.

In short, I think it's both a beautiful and engaging map, but it isn't quite what I would want to see at the highest levels of play. The split up start zones featured on this map are a fresh take on the game, and offer something truly unique. Unfortunately, the positioning of the water in the center of the map prevents this map from being very friendly towards melee figures and is ultimately what causes it to fall a little short. The disbursement of jungle pieces thoughout the map help mitigate the power of ranged units a little bit, but one of my games on the map consisted of Syvarris playing ring-around-the-river, all the time steadily picking off units in the endgame. It was pretty frustrating for the opposing player.

I really like this map - I'd definitely use it for local tourneys or home games but not at the highest levels of play.

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  #264  
Old September 1st, 2021, 10:27 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Well, call me brutal:

Quasatch Playground
I can’t stand the glyph locations on this map – they can be way too easy to defend and hold due to the placement of the ruins and the choke points created by their placement (on the large ruin side, if you place the screen just right, only one figure can get in at a time on both sides to try and punch through the screening figure). Time for a few nitpicks; there are a couple other choke points between jungle pieces out the middle left of the start zone, though they usually don't seem to be a problem. I do think the map would flow a bit better if a level was eliminated through the middle portion of the map — using six move figures on this map feels so much stronger than on most other maps. As a final nitpick, I'm sure it sounds silly to worry about one hex so much, but I wish the single hex dip in the grass terrain next to the ponds was smoothed out. The smaller nitpicks probably aren't enough by themselves to downvote the map, but I can't get over the glyph issues I've had on this map.

Burial Marsh
Between the two hills and significant opportunities for double base denial, this map just isn’t up to elite status.

Elswin Plateau
I do like this map — probably because I’ve had some really fun and close games on it. Unfortunately, this map’s biggest problem, as @dok has pointed out in his review, is how the lower part of the map isn’t very dynamic or interesting. Well-designed height variation adds depth and richness to a map and I would expect to see that in an elite level map. As a final note, anytime two power glyphs are close enough to both be covered by Raelin, I get really concerned — and Raelin can cover both glyphs on this map easily. With the amount of height offsetting the glyphs, I don’t believe it is as much of a problem on this map, but it is still concerning. .

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Last edited by Flash_19; June 5th, 2022 at 11:55 PM. Reason: Dok deserves all the credit.
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