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  #37  
Old September 24th, 2019, 01:33 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I am not on the SOV side of the house, so I cannot speak for them, other than I am on the Art Team and I have produced several of the SOV cards.

As for C3V, I don't think people realize how much work goes into getting just one hero/squad developed. And there is no set time for pushing a card, each unit is unique and moves at the pace that unit needs to move in order for it to be at the quality that C3V wants when it is released.

I am really excited to see how many people are now involved in playtesting new units, that is super valuable to us in getting units out the door. And real changes happen from the feedback from public playtesters.

As for Power Creep - I actually feel like we don't have enough competitive units, But I also think that these rating systems are flawed and that C should be the average grade for a unit in rankings(Bell curve) and that the curve is actually too much into the B range.

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites.
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  #38  
Old September 24th, 2019, 02:02 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

On the subject of power creep: at this point, the meta is so well known and we’re so familiar with the game we’d have to specifically design a unit to be sub-C. And, frankly, I don’t think that’s fun.

Is it really a good thing that Hatamato is so bad? Is it fun for the Marro cavalry to be almost unusable and boring on top of that? Why should we design units that just won’t see play?
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  #39  
Old September 24th, 2019, 02:59 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSamyon View Post
@sirheroscape just a friendly thought. Your response was a little harsh and combative to Rob. Since you're a member of C3V, remember that people will see you as speaking on behalf of the C3V and since there is a belief whether fair or not that the C3V is standoffish, I don't think that your response helps.
You are quite right. I've only just joined a couple days ago, so I'll have to get used to this now. Thank you for this.
Don't worry over it. Just keep in mind that I'm a C3V veteran myself so I do come at the subject with direct insight. Even if not working directly in C3V I have the benefit of being able to view it all and do input occasionally.

Overall we want what is best for the game to be not only competitive but fun and continually building despite being out of print. The local NHSD is being hosted by someone who built much of their collection after the game was cancelled. I'll be introducing them to a lot of C3V/SOV stuff they've never seen which I'm looking forward to.

C3V and SoV! Fanscape r0xxorz!!
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  #40  
Old September 24th, 2019, 05:46 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I think the subject of term limits is one of those things that works on paper in an ideal world but, absolutely no offense intended, is hopelessly naive in practice. And the reason is what Scytale laid out about SoV (but also pertains to C3V and C3G and HoSS and any other high level custom project out there):

These projects take an incredible amount of work and commitment and while folks absolutely burn out and take time off as the years pass, they don't tend to do so on any set schedule, and we do not (any of us) have such an embarrassment of riches in active and eager personnel that we can afford to shove anyone out early!

My experience, coming from C3G, but also having participated in some other groups over the years (including, notably, C3V) is that if you're passionate and excited about a project and you're willing to do heavy lifting (see: playtesting, art, etc.) and you're patient and dedicated enough, you absolutely will be put to work. You'll find a role and you'll be able to hold it so long as you're able to play nice with others and fulfill your obligations.

I see no deep well of people in the history of any of these projects who've worked hard to contribute to the project, participated actively and thoughtfully, and been stuck on the sidelines.

Term limits, while great in theory would result, in reality, in asking people to go and then having nobody to replace them. Why in the world would we want to do that?

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #41  
Old September 24th, 2019, 06:17 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread



Well met!

What is Heroscape? Is it the system of cards/powers/stats? Is it the Canon? Before C3V/SoV? Before D&D?

What is your purpose in creating a custom? To add to, or modify, the system? The Canon? Or to use the system as the basis for a different game?





Next Generation

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  #42  
Old September 24th, 2019, 06:21 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Yeah, the simple reality of the fanbase is just that term limits wouldn't work. There's a lot I think we as a community need to just face up to RE: state of the fanbase.
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  #43  
Old September 24th, 2019, 07:25 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

In regards to term limits and available staff, I can certainly sympathize with the challenge that can come with finding quality, volunteers. Especially in a game as old as Heroscape with a community as small as it is. Truly, I recognize that my suggestion for term limits is tied to growing the community. If the community grows, then more volunteers will be available.

I will add however, that there are still things that each project can do to turn things around and get more people engaged. Today if someone was interested in joining a team, how would they go about doing that? Is there an email list to email, phone number to call, or a point of contact to submit a resume to? Or is it currently setup so that "we'll call you, don't call us."

The danger with not having a clear path to involvement is that the perception and optics from the outside is that only those who are in the "in" crowd will get asked to join. In my opinion, this is why I believe others have mentioned projects being cliquish. Indeed, it is easy to see that perception taking hold if positions rarely open up and when they do they are filled before someone can announce their interest. While it may be an unfair and untrue position, combating bad optics is a challenge for all projects that involve the community.

I also believe that the community is bigger than we all believe. I've been analyzing some of the metrics for the recent vc releases and so far we hover around 200 downloads for each card. That is impressive since when you go to the books many of the newer ones are empty. We have quite a large silent majority.

So I believe the community is there, just not engaged. How do we engage them? One way is by providing a clear pathway to join their favorite project. @IAmBatman you guys do a great job of doing that over at the C3G. I think each project should strive to do the same. Term limits was just one possible pathway.
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  #44  
Old September 24th, 2019, 07:40 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Our main ways are the Public Design Post and Playtesting. Isn’t there a public playtesting sign up area for C3V?

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #45  
Old September 24th, 2019, 07:45 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Our main ways are the Public Design Post and Playtesting. Isnít there a public playtesting sign up area for C3V?
If you want to get your name in the ring for C3V membership and you're not playtesting, you're missing the boat. All of our public playtesting designs are available to look at in their subforum, no sign up required. We absolutely love getting tests and we value any feedback.

Outside of the tournament that we're running, though, we don't get much involvement there. Which is a shame because it's a very tangible way to have a big hand in C3V designs.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
make a card/post your maps

google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

CVN~ "I highly recommend C3V customs!"
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  #46  
Old September 24th, 2019, 07:51 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Yes, but there's no reward for doing it. You don't get points or anything like that (public members/designs aren't a thing), you don't even get a sneak peak as all the designs are posted publicly (and that wasn't enough when you did get it)... really, it honestly feels almost condescending, even if it doesn't mean to be. 'Here are our designs - little people, please test them for us? No, you can't comment on them unless you've tested them - not even a suggestion. No, you don't get anything for it - the knowledge of a job well done should be enough. Recognition from us is in no way guaranteed.' It feels actively hostile to public engagement except in a very limited, almost serfish way. It's all take and no give.
I mentioned this before years ago, here, but, as you can see, it received no response. Not one. That might be my biggest issue with VC. Any constructive criticism from has been met with, at most, what seems to amount to a pat on the head and a 'Don't worry - it's all under control, back where you can't see it'. That's where my frustration comes from - whatever people say, it's opaque and cliquey.


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  #47  
Old September 24th, 2019, 07:57 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Yes, but there's no reward for doing it. You don't get points or anything like that (public members/designs aren't a thing), you don't even get a sneak peak as all the designs are posted publicly (and that wasn't enough when you did get it)... really, it honestly feels almost condescending, even if it doesn't mean to be. 'Here are our designs - little people, please test them for us? No, you can't comment on them unless you've tested them - not even a suggestion. No, you don't get anything for it - the knowledge of a job well done should be enough. Recognition from us is in no way guaranteed.' It feels actively hostile to public engagement except in a very limited, almost serfish way. It's all take and no give.
I mentioned this before years ago, here, but, as you can see, it received no response. Not one. That might be my biggest issue with VC. Any constructive criticism from has been met with, at most, what seems to amount to a pat on the head and a 'Don't worry - it's all under control, back where you can't see it'. That's where my frustration comes from - whatever people say, it's opaque and cliquey.
I mean, there was C3V rewards where you could see finished cards, cost the same as the C3G if I remember, and I did use it a bit (3 cards if I remember). I'm gonna guess people just stopped using it so.

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  #48  
Old September 24th, 2019, 08:04 PM
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Re: SOV/C3V Feedback Thread

I've also noticed that, while those in VC keep saying they want to see more people designing not necessarily with VC in mind, as far as I can tell, that's basically lipservice - I barely ever see a VC member comment in a customs thread unless the design is being workshopped as SoV material. When TheAverageFan was designing, I was often the only person commenting. (Scytale and, to a lesser degree, wriggz are seemingly special cases who avoided this.) You can say what you want, but when you only seem to value designs heading for SoV and all the other threads are left feeling dead, it does give the impression that SoV is what people ought to be striding for, at least when it comes to peer recognition. It's a culture that I think is quite harmful to the community at large. That's why I think a Public Design system like C3G would be a good idea - then, people can do their workshopped from the ground up for VC designs, with a lesser chance of frustration because it will be worked on collectively rather than trying to decide which of multiple directions to be pulled in (the number of times I've seen initially fun and exciting designs collapse under the weight of trying to appeal to multiple Judges' conflicting ideas is honestly sad) and SoV can be left for the nomination of personal customs which people thing deserve the nod, rather than ones created from the ground up for it, which will then result in a lower workload for Judges and a faster turnaround.


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