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Old March 15th, 2013, 04:38 PM
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A Vision For Super Scape

A VISION FOR SUPER SCAPE

1. All The Comic Book Universes

Super Scape, as opposed to mere Marvel Legends Heroscape its officially licensed but long outdated parent, includes the Marvel, DC (Detective Comics), and various Indy Universes. We love their characters, which have been treated by many artists and writers over the years. My own vision for playing Super Scape has been clarified lately in conversations with my local NYC pals Sherman Davies, Taeblewalker, and Kolakoski, and the Long Island based Grizhnakh. Since I've been reorganizing and expanding my Supers collection, including Heroclix figures and cards designed by everyone who has posted here on site (including but not limited to C3G), I've been playing a lot and coming up with many ideas on how I want to play supers. Here are a few thoughts on that. I'm interested to hear how others play too, so feel free to chime in!

2. Supers Levels

Here is how I generally classify my supers (meaning custom supervillains, superheroes, and anyone else left including Classic Scape characters and customs I feel like throwing in).

EV 500+ Points; Event Heroes as C3G seems to define them--characters who are a whole team (army) in themselves.

A: 400-499 Points; High level supers like Superman

B: 300-399 Points; Higher Medium Supers

C: 200-299 Points; Lower Medium Supers

D: 100-199 Points; Low Level Supers

E: 51-99 Points; Special Support Characters, Tiny Characters, Squads

F: 1-50 Points; Swarm creatures like rats or insects.

This is not exact, but it will do. Normally, a character below EV will be able to take on two at the next lower level with an even chance, and be able to easily defeat one two or more levels lower. A well balanced team might for example consist of one A/B character, two C/D levels, and a few E/Fs.

3. Story Telling Versus Slugfests

Listen pal, my custom Big Barda can take out any three of your supers below EV level, and has when she gets the right die rolls! But so what? The idea isn't to have big bruisers bashing away at each other turn after turn, but to tell an interesting story with my games, by being able to recreate the comic universes in almost any kind of adventure story imaginable, from Conquering the Earth to Robbing A Bank. And under the right circumstances, The Question a relatively minor hero, should be able to thwart Darkseid's entire invasion--because Question did once do that.

4. Scenarios and Short Campaigns

Unless you are seriously playtesting characters, most games should take place in a more interesting context or scenario, or even a few linked ones as campaigns. Premade armies may allow me to recreate famous comic stories and battles. Limitations on team builds may allow lower point characters and Squads, Common Heroes, and Uncommon Heroes to shine.

For example, in what I call a "Pulp Adventure" supers game, characters are limited to 200 points each. I make "Pulp Adustments" on the cards so that Special Powers on lower pointed characters are not too limited. In one case I might expand the type of unit a character can bond with. The evil space pirate Nebula may as well bond with the Intergang Squad I'm introducing, as they are playing her crew in the scenario. In World War II, I played the Howling Commandoes with the modern US Ranger card that allowed them to drop at will, unlike the random drop of the Classic Airborne Elite, and to drop with their leader, Nick Fury because that's his modern power. This was combined with my own card designs for the Blackhawk Squadron, Blackhawk, and Lady Blackhawk, that allowed for aeriel strafing and transporting passengers to the battlefield by air. So it came off like a WWII Commando Raid, which was the plan.

Other scenarios I've been trying include:

*Rescue/Keep or Kidnap/Protect the Scientist

*Escort/Assassinate the President

*Grab the Glyph or Glyphs. Lately I've been trying 'Connect Three'--assemble three glyphs starting spread out all over the battlefield as one character holds them to 'assemble' the secret weapon or device.

*WWII Period games where only supers around in the Golden Age of Comics are allowed, (or in the future other time periods). So far these have included "Deliver The Doctor" (in Occupied Europe) and "Breaking The Bund" (here in the US of A) as well as "Stop The Sacrifice" as mentioned above.

*"Newbies," where I play lots of characters on both sides I haven't tried out yet for the first time, to familiarize myself with their cards and perhaps tweak them a bit for later games.

*I've also tried a two game campaign where the Rogues had to steal a Glyph of Loot (passive, like Brandar's Chest) from a laboratory and get it off the board. In the next battle, Gorilla Grodd, now receiving the crucial component, would threaten the good guys with his now assembled Glyph of E-Ray, giving him a bonus on his die roll when using it on those heroes converted to Simians for mind control.

*Teams: one official comic book team vs another, each with a roster that limits their membership. The long series of four team games included my 29 member Legion of Super Heroes in four different teams trying to thwart the Fatal Five.

*"Mixed Doubles:" a pair of heroes vs a pair of villains. If you want to be really cool, each pair should start with the same letter in their name!

***

For related ideas of mine I've been developing this year on Supers, see my Supers Customs thread, the Battle Reports section, and other posts.

Last edited by chas; March 18th, 2013 at 04:56 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 04:48 PM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

I do not quite understand what you are trying to accomplish.
What is the purpose of the levels?

If you are trying to create comic book scenarios/campaigns we could use your help in C3G. This is what I am trying to focus on ATM and struggling mightily.

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Old March 15th, 2013, 05:00 PM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

When people draft supers armies, they naturally try to win games with them. So far I've found that a problem with supers, even more so than with Classic Scape, is when one character so far outclasses his opponents that its no challenge for that superior being to take them down. The question is, to achieve balance between teams, do you go with premade balanced armies, or give a formula such as the one I give above for a 'balanced' team? Or do you reconstruct a comic book story with the exact characters who were actually involved? Or do you use a roster team system to draw up armies limited to 'official' team membership, such as The Inhumans vs The Avengers (my 'Street Heroes' Team includes everyone not on another team roster)? The purpose of the levels system for myself is to experiment with different formulas for interesting yet balanced team formation.

Since I've got almost 600 different characters with cards (and a few have multiple versions of themselves with different designers' cards) to play with in my new card files, I haven't done much with this new level system yet, because I'm still finishing up playing a first time with the characters I have both figures/proxies and cards for. However, although my pals prefer to free build their own teams based solely on a point total, I can see where I will introduce team formulas based on levels in the future, especially in solitaire games, to try and prevent mismatches and encourage creative play.

Part of this is because I can't, like C3G, post a list of all these Supers that will lead to a card and its precise character information--some of the cards I found during December in my Great Supers Card Hunt were barely recoverable at all due to bad links, old tech being used, etc. So a guide to team formation, like a premade team, might be a good way to get a game started while still giving the player some choice in who they field. This is also one of the reasons why I have my Master Lists, which include name, points, and whether I have figures for each (these lists can be seen posted separately in the Custom Comic Heroes site section) plus which comic universe they hail from, team roster affiliations, those that can be fielded by Good or Evil (C3G Civilians, C3G Bad Cops, Mercenaries by Matt Helm or J. Jonah Jameson by johnny137 or C3G).

Last edited by chas; January 20th, 2014 at 07:29 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 07:11 PM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

Woah. OK, I think I understand. I like what you are attempting to do.

I think making pre-made armies is a great approach and A3n is using that idea with his Super Hero Draft cards.

I created a random chart for both classic and C3G. The classic chart is still solid but C3G keeps releasing new figures faster than I can update the charts so I gave up. I need to do an update soon.

Best of luck, I will be keeping an eye on this.

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  #5  
Old March 19th, 2013, 07:17 AM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
When people draft supers armies, they naturally try to win games with them. So far I've found that a problem with supers, even more so than with Classic Scape, is when one character so far outclasses his opponents that its no challenge for that superior being to take them down. The question is, to achieve balance between teams, do you go with premade balanced armies, or give a formula such as the one I give above for a 'balanced' team? Or do you reconstruct a comic book story with the exact characters who were actually involved? Or do you use a roster team system to draw up armies limited to 'official' team membership, such as The Inhumans vs The Avengers (my 'Street Heroes' Team includes everyone not on another team roster)? The purpose of the levels system for myself is to experiment with different formulas for interesting yet balanced team formation.

Since I've got almost 600 different characters with cards (and a few have multiple versions of themselves with different designers' cards) to play with in my new card files, I haven't done much with this new level system yet, because I'm still finishing up playing a first time with the characters I have both figures/proxies and cards for. However, although my pals prefer to free build their own teams based solely on a point total, I can see where I will introduce team formulas based on levels in the future, especially in solitaire games, to try and prevent mismatches and encourage creative play.

Part of this is because I can't, like C3G, post a list of all these Supers that will lead to a card and its precise character information--some of the cards I found during December in my Great Card Hunt were barely recoverable at all due to bad links, old tech being used, etc. So a guide to team formation, like a premade team, might be a good way to get a game started while still giving the player some choice in who they field. This is also one of the reasons why I have my Master Lists, which include name, points, and whether I have figures for each (old versions of these lists can be seen on my Supers Customs thread) plus which comic universe they hail from, team roster affiliations, those that can be fielded by Good or Evil (C3G Civilians, C3G Bad Cops, Mercenaries by Matt Helm or J. Jonah Jameson by johnny137).
I will normally choose a weaker super-hero team just so It will be more of a challenge to win. It may be fun to take down Darksied with Superman, but isn't it so much funner (more fun) to bring the big man down with five of the Teen Titans instead.

Also, Event Heros need not be an army in and of themselves, it basicly means a figure who fairly self contained, and should not be able to be destroyed in one hit. Master Myx is only 240 points, Impossible man is a mere 400, Master Mold is 520, but you can't use him without at least 3 sentinals on your side.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 07:45 AM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

SW: Exactly.

And thanks for the clarification on C3G Event Heroes (maybe they should be called Event Villains). According to my different definition, Master Mold and His Sentinels would be considered one, as they don't need allies or other figures besides their specific own to make up their army. I have a reference list of them--both C3G and others. So far over here we've only fought against Master Mold, with four Sentinels. We used the original X-Men, but with Warren boosted up to Archangel. We beat them, but not by much.

Here's what I have so far. Does anyone have others? Has C3G published a list?

EVENT HEROES
by Chas

Beyonder 2,500 (G)
Galactus 1,600 (G)
Anti-Monitor 1,600 (G)
Apocalypse 1,010/620 (G)
Asgardian Destroyer 825/650
Brainiac 800 (G)
Starro 800
Fin Fang Foom 750
Dormammu 700
Ultron 680 (G)
Dark Phoenix 600//490 (G)425
Master Mold 520 (G) Plus Sentinels 160
Nimrod 450 (G)
Impossible Man 430 (G)
Darkseid 380 (G) /380
Mr. Mxyzptlk 280 (G)
Dalek Sec 250 + Assault Daleks(2) 210

(G)=C3G
/=Different Versions

Last edited by chas; March 19th, 2013 at 08:34 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 08:52 PM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

I definitely support the idea that one thing that sets Superheroscape from Heroscape is the emphasis on cards that tell stories (and the fertile ground for scenario play - something I'll eventually transition toward in a big way for my part of C3G).

Since you asked (and since they're not all villains ) I can give you the list of released C3G Event Heroes, as well as a partial list of other characters that I personally at least see as Event Hero level:

Released C3G Event Heroes
Mister Mxyzptlk
Nimrod
Master Mold
Apocalypse
ULTRON
Brainiac
Galactus
Anti-Monitor
Beyonder
Dark Phoenix

Some I Could See Being Done as Event Heroes
(Including only DC/Marvel)
Odin
Surtur
Doctor Manhattan
Nekkron
Blackheart
Mephisto
Fing Fang Foom
Starro
Krona
Brainiac 13
The Wizard SHAZAM
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet
Parallax
Extant
Ares (DC)
Dormammu
Trigon
Alloy
Gog
Onslaught
High Evolutionary
The Watcher
Superboy Prime
The First Lantern

And I'm sure there are many, many others.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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Old March 25th, 2013, 10:37 PM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

IAmBatman: Great; thanks! It looks like we're thinking along similar lines.

And now for games with the exact opposite of Event Heroes. I'm getting ready to play some nicely themed Cops and Robbers Scenarios with low pointed cards. I've just published my Quick Scan Master Lists, which include for the first time the names of all the individual designers I could find (or "C3G") for all the 650 or so cards in my collection, in the Supers Customs section. There you can also see my Team Roster Lists.

So to play these Pulp Adventure type games (all characters with a maximum of 200 points; see Battle Reports) I'll set up a formula for both teams, something like total points which can include two supers (like Batman and Robin or The Joker and Harley), and the rest from my Non-Super Criminals and Police lists which include all available cards I've chosen from all over the site for Uniques, Uncommons, Commons, and Squads. It took a while to organize the whole Comic Book Universe, but after 4 months of concentrating on Super Scape, I think I've just about done it! Future games can be pulled from other lists you can see there, from Terrorists to Waterborne, from Nazis to Freelance Agents, as well as the more traditional established supers team lists like the Justice League of America or the X-Men.

Feel free to use any of these if they are useful to you, and let me know how it works out!

Last edited by chas; March 25th, 2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old April 17th, 2013, 09:18 AM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

INTERIM MEDITATION

I have finished assembling most of the available comic book universes into character cards. Recently I got the last batch of Heroclix figures I plan to get for a while. My lists of characters for whom I have both cards and figures but remain unplayed have shrunk to almost nothing, as my main project in the last few dozen games has been to get them on the table. Even if they remained inactive during their battles, it gave me the chance to size up their cards and think about how to use them.

I have recently drawn up lists of cards for whom I do not have figures. These will be played in the future with proxies. They are large lists (for Good and Evil), comprising perhaps a third of my card collection (about 650 cards, divided roughly in half for Good and Evil. Unlike the other lists with figures, I will probably never got to them all. But I will continue to drop them in where possible.

I am now ready to take on some of the great comic stories for which I've been waiting, as I collected so many figures and cards, reorganized my card files and figure storage boxes, etc. For a game with a Big Theme starting this new stage see RAID ON APOCALYPSE!, in the Battle Reports section under 'Chas Does Supers Battles.' You can also see 'Chas Does Pulp Adventure,' for games with characters not over 200 points. I'm off to the next stage of playing what I have, which could easily last me the rest of my life. But I'll still be checking in on the new cards made available by C3G and individual designers, and making a few of my own along the way!
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Old January 20th, 2014, 02:26 AM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

SUPERS SCENARIOS UPDATE

I've just posted my new INFINITY GAUNTLET scenario under Maps and Scenarios here in the supers site section. It uses the new Christmas 2014 C3G Thanos and their Glyph of Infinity Gauntlet and the six Gem Glyphs, which I find most excellent. It is also the first "UNRESTRICTED" scenario, as it allows army builds based on Supers from many sources, plus Classic/VC custom builds!

The New York City Gang of Four, my local Scape group, has begun to experiment with mixing Classic and Customs, and I've also started a thread for that. Sherman Davies and I recently played two interesting games where victory conditions included saving/killing Civilian figures. Then our whole group tried out a variation (see Kolakoski's Blog), which included civilians, supers, and classics! Taeblewalker was there too, and even though he's now moved upstate, he's right there to comment onsite when I do a new supers custom!

Last edited by chas; January 20th, 2014 at 07:32 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2015, 09:44 AM
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Re: A Vision For Super Scape

Just an update that you can now follow our adventures on our new Official Heroscape/General Discussion thread!
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