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  #85  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 09:14 AM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

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Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
The idea of having an extra attack against a figure that wasn't within range at the beginning of his turn was cool. Gameplay-wise, that would turn Tauntaun Han into a kind of shark that constantly runs in and out of range in order to maximize his offensive firepower, or continues to run along the edges of enemy lines in order to continually get the bonus attack. Like a range-version of First Assault or the Templar's charge, which would be much more effective if those figures could freely disengage. The ranged version of the power would cause it to be a highly mobile figure that wants to keep on the move and not just park on the highest point in the map - offering a somewhat unique style of play.
Exactly. When I first found this thread and saw that power name that was exactly what I pictured. This is what I think could make Han really cool, especially on snowy maps. And if he has a power called "Aggressive Scouting" I think he should be a Scout with a personality of Bold or something.

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  #86  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:43 AM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
The idea of having an extra attack against a figure that wasn't within range at the beginning of his turn was cool. Gameplay-wise, that would turn Tauntaun Han into a kind of shark that constantly runs in and out of range in order to maximize his offensive firepower, or continues to run along the edges of enemy lines in order to continually get the bonus attack. Like a range-version of First Assault or the Templar's charge, which would be much more effective if those figures could freely disengage. The ranged version of the power would cause it to be a highly mobile figure that wants to keep on the move and not just park on the highest point in the map - offering a somewhat unique style of play.
I like this idea as well.
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  #87  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 02:54 PM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

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Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
I agree with Schulzy. Maybe it would be more fitting to turn it around and have the Tauntaun figure be the standard, still use the marker, and he simply gets different stats after the Tauntaun dies. Unofficial gameplay could swap Tauntaun Han for Hoth Han because it looks more fitting.
I don't think there should be a marker at all. Having a unit change left side stats based on a marker isn't completely unprecedented, especially when taking C3G into account, but changing hit zones, size, and the line of sight for is. There is simply too much room for confusion if a physical figure acts differently or has different limitation then it actually does. So, in my mind, the options are figure switching, which not too many people seem to be on board with or scrapping the ability that lets Han burn the Tauntaun, which seems to be key to the design. There may have to be a way to compromise with a supportive power that doesn't actually require the Tauntaun to "die" or scrap that aspect entirely and focus on the scouting/opportunistic aspect of the design.
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  #88  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 04:06 PM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schulzy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
I agree with Schulzy. Maybe it would be more fitting to turn it around and have the Tauntaun figure be the standard, still use the marker, and he simply gets different stats after the Tauntaun dies. Unofficial gameplay could swap Tauntaun Han for Hoth Han because it looks more fitting.
I don't think there should be a marker at all. Having a unit change left side stats based on a marker isn't completely unprecedented, especially when taking C3G into account, but changing hit zones, size, and the line of sight for is. There is simply too much room for confusion if a physical figure acts differently or has different limitation then it actually does. So, in my mind, the options are figure switching, which not too many people seem to be on board with or scrapping the ability that lets Han burn the Tauntaun, which seems to be key to the design. There may have to be a way to compromise with a supportive power that doesn't actually require the Tauntaun to "die" or scrap that aspect entirely and focus on the scouting/opportunistic aspect of the design.
I agree that a mechanic like that is too confusing and too hard to pull off. That's why I'm in favor of no Smell Bad power. I am, however, ok with a Hoth Han (preferably a low costed unit) replacing the Tauntaun Han to represent the Tauntaun dying.

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  #89  
Old February 24th, 2015, 03:23 AM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Looking at ClassicScape (which still serves as our canonical foundation for what we try to achieve), it seems like we're fussing about a mount too much. Classic didn't ever make a difference between the figure and what it was riding. Maybe it would be more fitting to simply keep Tauntaun Han as such, drop the Tauntaun powers and let the Tauntaun be reflected by his mobility and the carry ability.

I know there are strong advocates for Smell Bad and killing the Tauntaun and whatnot, but this might be a case where trying too hard to integrate scenes from the film may over-complicate or ruin a design.

And Tauntaun Han really took up very little time in the film. Let's put a little more effort into Carbonite Han, who had a lot more screen-time and get this design finished up.

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  #90  
Old February 24th, 2015, 07:24 AM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Han Solo, on Tauntaun
Rebel Alliance

Human
Unique Hero
Scout
Bold
LARGE ???

Life 5
Move 7
Range 5
Attack 3
Defense 4
Points ???

AGGRESSIVE SCOUTING
If Han attacks a figure that was not within 4 clear sight spaces when he started his turn, he may add 1 to his attack. If Han Solo is on a Snow or Ice space you may roll 1 additional attack die for Aggressive Scouting.

Carry

SNOW AND ICE ENHANCED MOVEMENT
Slippery Ice and Heavy Snow only count as 1 space when moving.


Here's what I was thinking. With Scouting power Han pushses ahead and catches the enemy off guard. When he is on snow or ice they never see him coming.
Either that or make Smell Bad power where Hoth Han (dif card) replaces Han on Tauntaun, in which case the Tauntaun will need stats that better reflect just the Tauntaun.

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  #91  
Old February 24th, 2015, 08:31 AM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan View Post
I know there are strong advocates for Smell Bad and killing the Tauntaun and whatnot, but this might be a case where trying too hard to integrate scenes from the film may over-complicate or ruin a design.
Random thought of the day: how horrible are we to the Tauntaun species that all we ever think of them as is disposable fleshy heated sleeping bags? The average Tauntaun has certainly never been used as such, and would be horrified at the prospect.

That said, I agree here that we need to drop any Tauntaun killing related powers from the design and focus on the rest. Let's let Han's poor Tauntaun finally rest in peace.
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  #92  
Old February 24th, 2015, 10:21 AM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Previous Suggestion:
AGGRESSIVE SCOUTING
If Han attacks a figure that was not within 4 clear sight spaces when he started his turn, he may add 1 to his attack. If Han Solo is on a Snow or Ice space you may roll 1 additional attack die for Aggressive Scouting.

I like the idea of it being an extra attack moreso than it being an extra die. I also like it more if it is for figures not within range at the beginning of the turn. The way it is now, he can still shoot from his max range and get the boost. I'd like it to be a little more mobile where he has to advance on the enemy to get the boost.

My Suggestion:
AGGRESSIVE SCOUTING
If Han attacks a figure that was not within his range when he started his turn, he may attack one additional time.

As far as I'm concerned, the part about boosted Snow and Ice attacks could be there as well (If Han Solo is on a Snow or Ice space you may roll 1 additional attack die).

This makes him better against squads he might be scouting, slightly worse against high-defense units, but then you shouldn't send a scout to kill a tank.

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  #93  
Old February 24th, 2015, 12:46 PM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

I like this new direction guys! Agree with Tai-Pan on having the boost only help when attacking figures he would otherwise not have been able to attack had he not moved. I'd say give him more life to represent his Tauntaun taking a few hits while allowing him to risk more LEA. Not so sure about Carry, if he did get to lug extra people around it should then take away from his aggressive scouting.
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  #94  
Old February 24th, 2015, 02:36 PM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I like this new direction guys! Agree with Tai-Pan on having the boost only help when attacking figures he would otherwise not have been able to attack had he not moved. I'd say give him more life to represent his Tauntaun taking a few hits while allowing him to risk more LEA. Not so sure about Carry, if he did get to lug extra people around it should then take away from his aggressive scouting.
Agreed. I had just read the Aggressive scouting as requiring movement and hadn't even realized he could sit still I just kinda copied and pasted ideas from the old versions. I was never a big fan of carry and think he's better without it.

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  #95  
Old February 24th, 2015, 03:02 PM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

Han Solo, on Tauntaun
Rebel Alliance

Human
Unique Hero
Scout
Bold
LARGE ???

Life 5
Move 7
Range 5
Attack 3
Defense 4
Points ???

AGGRESSIVE SCOUTING
If Han attacks a figure that was not within 5 clear sight spaces when he started his turn, he may attack one additional time. If Han Solo is on a Snow or Ice space you may roll 1 additional attack die.

SNOW CAMOFLAGE
If Han Solo is on a snow or ice space he may add 1 to his defense.

SNOW AND ICE ENHANCED MOVEMENT
Slippery Ice and Heavy Snow only count as 1 space when moving.



Things to think about:
Shouldn't Han get a bonus against a figure he couldn't see even if that figure was in range before Han moved? How should that be worded?
Should the second attack be limited to figures that were out of range/sight? Should the extra attack die for the second attack be limited to figures that were out of range/sight?
What about the range glyph?
Should Han be required to move a certain number of spaces? because moving 1 space to attack someone previously out of range isn't very aggressive.
Any ideas for other powers?
Thoughts on Snow Camoflage or a similar power? Maybe no hit zone?

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But John came fifth, and won a toaster.
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  #96  
Old February 24th, 2015, 03:12 PM
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Re: The Public design of Hoth Han

I'd cut back on the snow related powers. Having all 3 of his powers based on being on a snow map means he will be massively overpriced on all maps without snow. I'll have to go read up on tauntauns again but I didn't think they were strictly cold weather creatures.
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