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  #1  
Old August 17th, 2007, 08:07 AM
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order markers on dead/not-in-play units?

It seems this should have been discussed before, but I do not see it in the FAQ nor the first 10 pages of topics. (It's tough without the old search function.)

Can one put an order marker on a card that is dead or not yet in play.
This actually came up in a recent game. Examples...

(1) [this is the situation that came up in the game] It is near the end of a game limited by the number of turns and you have only wolves left that will are not near any enemies. Are you forced to put turn markers on the wolves and risk suicide, or can you put your order markers on dead cards. (We decided you had to put markers only on cards in play. And of course, the last wolf committed suicide, ending that player's chance for victory. This happened in the last round of the Unguarded Wellspring of Obsession scenario. It was very amusing.)

(2) [this also came up in a game] After Thanos dies, can you put an order marker on him, gambling that he will come back to life?

(3) Can you put an order marker on not-yet-summoned Rechets, hoping that they are summoned? (For example, #1, #2 on Iskra and #3 on Rechets.)

(4) Similar to #1 above, if you only have Marcu and/or Sir Hawthorne left, can you put order markers on dead/not-yet-in-play units instead of them?

There are two questions.
(A) Can one place an order marker on a not-yet-in-play unit, such as AE or Rechets?
(B) Can one place an order marker on a destroyed unit?

I am resisting making a poll....
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  #2  
Old August 17th, 2007, 08:51 AM
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This is the way we play:

I would say you would have to put order markers on in play cards. When a card dies, we usually take it off the table and put it in a "dead" pile to avoid any confusion. I think you handled the Wolves the correct way.

I don't think you'd be able to put a order marker on the Rechets yet. That is why they let you immediately take a turn with them after you summon. They differ from the AE however because with the AE, you roll for the drop before placing order markers. If you get the roll, you can then place a marker on them.

So for the two questions I would say:
1. You don't get to put order markers on units not yet in play.
2. You don't get to put order markers on destroyed units.

I'm not a rules lawyer or rules fanatic, but hope that helps

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  #3  
Old August 17th, 2007, 09:09 AM
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If your oponent wants to risk it let them

The other advantage to doing so, would be if Spartacus is dead... it just says if a marker is on his card, nothing about him having to be alive .
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Old August 17th, 2007, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
The other advantage to doing so, would be if Spartacus is dead... it just says if a marker is on his card, nothing about him having to be alive .
But if he is dead, is his power still in play? I'd say that power dies once the character is dead?

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Old August 17th, 2007, 12:17 PM
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I'm thinking all Order Markers must be placed on in play units. Here are several thoughts on why:

1) Occam's Razor. It just flat out makes sense that you would only put markers on units you know you can use.

2) The Drop. It is worth noting that you get to see whether or not the AE drop before placing Order Markers. By itself that doesn't mean much, but it is consistent with the idea that you only place markers on in play units.

3) Mindshackle. It seems clear that you cannot place Order Markers on enemy units even though you might at some point in a turn control them. Again consistent with the idea that markers are only for (your) in play cards.

4) Removed from Play. Unless a card has a special that "breaks the rules" any unit removed from play seems to be treated like any other undrafted unit in your collection and thus would not be available for the placement of markers.

In any case you would not get the benefit of the powers of any unit not in play that does not specify it works out of play (e.g. Finn, et al).

~Aldin, Using Order Marker #3 to try for the Rechets

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  #6  
Old August 17th, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uprising
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draconious
The other advantage to doing so, would be if Spartacus is dead... it just says if a marker is on his card, nothing about him having to be alive .
But if he is dead, is his power still in play? I'd say that power dies once the character is dead?
A character needs to be on the board for its ability to have any affect unless specifically stated otherwise. This does not work, sorry

I think the Rechets are probably the only unit you might want to put order markers on while they're out of play. Thanos is generally a bad idea simply because putting markers on him not only potentially wastes turns, but reduces the number of chances you get to bring him back to life in the first place.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 03:15 PM
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I think this is a solid "ask Hasbro" question. Can you put an order marker on a dead card if you want, and just "waste" the turn?
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  #8  
Old August 17th, 2007, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcb231
I think this is a solid "ask Hasbro" question. Can you put an order marker on a dead card if you want, and just "waste" the turn?
IMO, this is a no-brainer. If the unit is desteroyed, then so is everything else tied to that unit, and they no longer exist, (except in spirit form, Thanos included). You cannot move them, use the powers on their cards, and therefore would not be able to place order markers on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pg.14 of 2nd edition rule book
When a figure has as many Wound Markers as the Life number on its Army Card, it is destroyed. {A figure with only one life is destroyed by only one wound.) The player who controls the destroyed figure places it on the Army Card. When all figures on an Army Card have been destroyed, the Army Card is out of play. Do not reveal any Order Markers that are on that Army Card for that round of play. On future rounds, you can't take any turns for that card. Any Order Markers still on the Army Card come back into play, and can be placed in future rounds.
If you can't take any turns for that card, you cannot place any Turn Markers on it! This pretty much answers it for me!

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Old August 17th, 2007, 04:38 PM
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It may seem like a no brainer, but there is nothing in the rulebook that says you cannot do it. It seems like the logical interpretation, but that may not make it true. We all agree you can't take a turn with a dead card, but the rules do not indicate that you may not place an order marker on a dead card and simply not take the turn.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 04:56 PM
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Why on earth would you place an order marker on a dead unit anyway? I understand the argument for not wanting to roll for sir hawthorne or Marcu but come on that is part of drafting them. If your opponent has managed to destroy ornak (if you drafted him to use for Marcu) then tough luck, next time get him out in the battle and let him die a noble death not a death of a coward (not you the player, rather the unit itself ) Sometimes in wanting to win I feel we scrutinize the rules so badly that we lose the overall feel of the game. This game is meant to be straight forward and easy going but still competitive. I'm not saying this is a dumb question as I feel no question is dumb. However it does confuse me as to how questions like this come up. My wife has a habit of scrutenizing rules when she is losing to the point that every turn is a hassle. My kids like to run away when they are losing to a place that offers no advantage for them to make a final stand. They do this to keep the game going but it becomes more of an annoyance than anything else. Common sense and gaming etiquitte apply always. As for a true ruling on this question I really believe that once the "in play" termonology is defined by Hasbro, than the answer will be officially given. An Until then I believe it to be up to the roll of the D20. Sometimes it sucks (I hope I can say that) but it is what it is.

The rulebook states under the section of placing order markers "decide which army card you'll use..." Obviously if the unit is destroyed it is not able to be used. With the exception of Thanos, AE, and Retchets I feel this applies to all cards. The exceptions will have to wait for the "in play" ruling. Just my thoughts.

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Old August 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
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I think Thanos would be the most common use, if not the only use.
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  #12  
Old August 17th, 2007, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcb231
I think Thanos would be the most common use, if not the only use.
Rechets. Thanos isn't even a good use as you don't get to roll for a chance to bring him back if you don't take a turn with someone living.
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