netherspirit's customs - new stuff in my blog

[ChaosChild]

Let's see if I can explain this right.

Here's my revised suggestion.

Protection Shield Special Defence
When any small or medium figure adjacent to Shieldwalker 7000 is defending against an attack, Shieldwalker 7000 may block the attack and defend with Protection Shield Special Defense in place of the attacked figure.

I like GB's "defending against an attack" because that rules out the SW7000 from defending passing swipes. (I looked in the rules. A passing swipe is an attack.)

I don't like "Instead of the rolling defense dice for the defending figure, Shieldwalker 7000 may attempt to block the attack with his Protection Shield Special Defense." because the word "attempt" suggests that SW7000 could fail at blocking the attack.

With my wording, SW7000 blocks the attack going to the fig. That takes the fig out of the equation. Then SW7000 defends with his PSSD in place of the attacked fig which means that SW7000 defends with 5 dice and takes any wounds (hence the words "in place of"). I don't believe that you need to write out that SW7000 takes the wounds.

Of couse this means that you will have to amend the rules to say that Special Defence is never modified. (by glyphs and Rae, etc.)

I'm not saying this is right, just that I think it is right. If I missed something, let me know.

[netherspirit]

Originally Posted by ChaosChild

Of couse this means that you will have to amend the rules to say that Special Defence is never modified. (by glyphs and Rae, etc.)

One would think that common sense would dictate that a Special Defense is just like a Special Attack, hence the Special in front of the words. I know that if there ever was a Special Defense officially it would have to be in the rulebook, and many people lack common sense so here is the rule blurb for Special Defense

Special Defense Rule: See Special Attack Rule.

:P

So many suggestions, okay, I am taking all suggestions into mind while I work on the final? reword. Busy working on a couple of other things...so give me sometime...and it will be up there.

I really do appreciate all the suggestions and input you guys are giving me. Its awesome!

[ChaosChild]

Originally Posted by netherspirit

One would think that common sense would dictate that a Special Defense is just like a Special Attack, hence the Special in front of the words. I know that if there ever was a Special Defense officially it would have to be in the rulebook, and many people lack common sense so here is the rule blurb for Special Defense

Special Defense Rule: See Special Attack Rule.

When drafting armies, common sense rarely sees action. Not enough special abilities or something.

[netherspirit]

Tweaked. You may have to hit F5 to see the changes. I think its best to keep the line about the wounds on there just so there isn't any confusion.

[Grungebob]

Nether, you seem to be stuck on that last line and here I am thinking it needs more mechanical clarification. My next revision was going to look like this:


When any friendly small or medium figure adjacent to Shieldwalker 7000 is rolling defense dice against an attack, Instead of the rolling defense dice for the defending figure, Shieldwalker 7000 may attempt to block the attack with his Protection Shield Special Defense. Shieldwalker 7000 takes one wound for every skull not blocked by the Protection Shield Special Defense

I'm not sure I am thinking in the same direction as you here, so I will let this one be. I might not be helping this process by nitpicking things.

[netherspirit]

Made some more changes....

I don't like the tense you used in "rolling defense die" to me that reads that they are already rolling the dice...I like the preventative wording of "would roll defense die" I think that lends itself to a more replacment wording which is what the ability is. I think simply stating that he may use the Special Defense instead of their defense is better than "may attempt to block..."

I went ahead and used your wording for the part about the wounds, but again I think simply stating that any wounds that would come while using his defense is enough. The rulebook contains the wording needed to describe exactly how many wounds he would take....I could be wrong though...I dunno....

Anyways, thanks a ton for the help GB and everyone else, I really appreciate all the different angles you guys are presenting for this...

Maybe you (GB) could explain your reasoning on the wording you wrote and that would help me see the light to your way of thinking

Card is two posts up....thanks again.

[Grungebob]

Oh sure Nether.. Heroscape wording tends to state what is actually happening versus what the special is doing. They usually state "rolling defense dice" because it is confusing when characters are being attacked by things that don't allow them to roll. They rarely make statements like your original last line, and I assume it is to leave the way open for other special powers. The use of the word "attempt" was just my thinking that there is a chance that the Shieldwalker could fail to block the attack and so it should not be stated that the attack is blocked. Also I wonder about attacks that affect adjacent units such as DW explossive attack. If Shieldwalker is defending in place of the target, then does he have to defend twice? What if HE is the target? Will he defend as many times as he has friendlies adjacent?

[netherspirit]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

Also I wonder about attacks that affect adjacent units such as DW explossive attack. If Shieldwalker is defending in place of the target, then does he have to defend twice? What if HE is the target? Will he defend as many times as he has friendlies adjacent?

Hmmmm. It would seem that the way its worded now, he would get to roll for everyone. I don't like that, I will add this.

"Use this ability only if Sheildwalker 7000 is not the target of the attack" or something to that affect. That way it will force your opponent to attack him with their "splash" attack to be able to hit the other figures.

The other stuff you said I will reread when I am not so tired...its time for bed for me. Way past my bed time....

[ChaosChild]

After reading GB's post, I think special attacks could be a problem. So, I came up with this:

Protection Shield Special Defence
When any small or medium figure adjacent to Shieldwalker 7000 is defending against an attack that they are the target of, Shieldwalker 7000 may protect the attacked figure and defend with Protection Shield Special Defense in it's place.

I agree with GB on "defending against an attack".

I added "that they are the target of". That should take care of explosion type attacks. SW7000 would have to defend twice for an explosion attack if the fig he is protecting is the target.

I also put in the word "protect" in place of "block". "Block" made it sound like the attack was negated. The word "protect" is an arbitrary term like Jotun's "throw". "Throw" doesn't mean anything in game terms until you put "by placing it on any empty space within 4 spaces of Jotun".

I still don't think you need to state that SW7000 takes the wounds. That is implied in defending against an attack.

[Grungebob]

Here is an idea for how to fix things.... And now you know why the designers do it!!!

When any friendly small or medium figure adjacent to Shieldwalker 7000 is rolling defense dice against a normal attack, Shieldwalker 7000 may attempt to block the attack with his Protection Shield Special Defense. Shieldwalker 7000 takes one wound for every skull not blocked by the Protection Shield Special Defense

I swear this special is driving me crazy!! I will think on it some more.

[netherspirit]

Okay, so normal attacks it is. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted about "him not being the target" maybe I was dilusional from being so tired.

I will change it to normal attacks and then work on the rest of the wording. I think I will say "Sheildwalker 7000 may attempt to protect the figure with his Protection...."

I liked ChaosChild's logic on that...

I think the word "Instead" needs to be there somewhere too.

So the new full wording will be like this:

When any friendly small or medium figure adjacent to Shieldwalker 7000 would roll defense dice against a normal attack, Shieldwalker 7000 may attempt to protect the figure with his Protection Shield Special Defense, instead. Shieldwalker 7000 takes one wound for every skull not blocked by the Protection Shield Special Defense

Now its off to work all day, I will keep checking in but won't be able to make any changes until tonight.

[ChaosChild]

I don't think that the word "attempt" should be in there. It implies that SW7000 could fail at protecting the fig (like not rolling a high enough number on the 20-sider). As far as I can tell, the attacked fig is not going to take any wounds at all as long as the criteria of SW7000's ability is met. In that case, SW7000 is the only one going to take wounds if he doesn't roll enough shields. Therefore, SW7000 cannot fail to protect if he uses his PSSD.