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  #2473  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 05:37 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

If you've been paying attention to the C3V PreRelease thread, they will be getting a Hero to help them out.

Also, we work with the minis we got available, so we can't but help if they may be a size difference.

Also, SoV really only tests to see if card maybe overpowered. It's okay if it's underpowered, as at least it'll not break the system. Also, in part, they are meant to be new and fun to play with. Competitiveness is considered, but not the top priority.
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  #2474  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 05:41 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Have you actually played with them? The judges didn't seem to think they were very overpriced, or even overpriced at all.

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  #2475  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:48 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
1) Raptorians were supposed to be very big birds, and from what we can see, it's the complete opposite... Very little birds as impressive as a doorknob...
This issue was discussed at length in the greater Fanscape community. The decision was that these are a subspecies of Raptorian that are smaller than most.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
2) The figure is not pretty, and not well finished (I miss you classic scape), I thought te Sneaks were rats before understand they were Raptorians so kind of birds...
Do you have the actual figures? I think they look pretty good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
3) They cost too much and are too weak to be taken as filler, so I suppose they're designed to be play in mass (like 10 squads ).
But if you play them this way, they're not good too, they've only 2 attacks of 3dices per turn, it's ridiculous!
Please read my review, as well as the other judges' reviews. When I looked at them purely theoryscaping I very much agreed with you. After they defeated 10th Reg on equal footing multiple times in a row, I was forced to change my opinion. Despite their weak stats and only two attacks per order marker, they are amazingly formidable. I might even consider them tournament-worthy, though they have some bad matchups.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
4) Why not do a simple (but effective) 4 members squad? Okay this move bonding is novel, but what is its purpose?
Some of us have the feelings that you're making original stuff, in order to... make original stuff, not to make good custom.
First point, there are only two kenku figures available. I have no doubt Super_Bogue would have made them a 3- or 4-figure squad if it was possible.

Second point, we in the SoV do not create units. We merely judge them. Plain or original, powerful or weak, costly or cheap, we do not make those decisions. We merely judge what is given us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
5)They lose vs ANY common squad with a rank B or higher (even vs the Trons, you just have to put your OM on glads and the glads win easily), there is no point to take them besides "for fun and testing new stuff".
Again, please read my review. They do not lose against ANY common squad; at equal point values I found they could beat any range common squad (even powerhouses like the 10th) or any medium-strength melee common.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
6) Glide is one of the more useless power I've ever seen.
Seriously, how many falling dice do you rolled in your heroscape career? Less than 5 I guess, whereas you probably played more than a thousand of games...
Not many, because I am afraid to jump off of height. Not with these guys though. You must not play on maps with much variety; many of the multiplayer maps I play on have places to fall from.

Besides, there is room in the game for powers that are more flavorful than useful (like A Coward's Reward, for example). Not a lot of room, but a power like that now and again is fine as long as it's simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
Please release a figure we could use in normal games, and draft it in order to win and not in order to "try new stuff". Just one, please.
Let me repeat a couple of points from above. First, we do not create units here, we just judge them. We cannot release something like you suggest unless someone submits it. So, if you're so inclined, find some customs that you think fit the bill, test them thoroughly, and submit them.

Second, you are seriously underestimating the Sneakbeaks. They certainly don't look all that menacing on paper, but when plastic hits the battlefield they pack some surprising punch. I wouldn't have voted for them if they didn't (see my review of the Threforian Raptor for an example).

Last edited by Scytale; October 3rd, 2012 at 07:53 PM.
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  #2476  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:21 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foudzing View Post
I came from the french forums and the french community ...
I want to let you know that Foudzing is not mandated to speak on behalf of the French forum.

I'm also from the French forum.
Foudzing made some interesting points in his quick made analysis, but I do not endorse everything and I disagree with his tendency to mock.
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  #2477  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I think the next SoV judge should be nominated from the French forum.
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  #2478  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:28 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I nominate Dalu if anyone from the french forum. Could cause some serious discussions around the thread.
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  #2479  
Old October 4th, 2012, 12:35 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Dalu certainly have our respect, here and on the french forum, and have a knack to find bugs, kinks and problems ! All in a very policed speach, pleasant tone and always supported by testing or simulation. SoV couldn't go wrong by taking him, as C3V already know.

Foudzing is at the center of nearly all heated debates on the French forum, tact not being its main attribute He is the troublemaker of ours forum, but eh, any community needs one. If his question are not very tactfull, he have the habits of making good points, but is sometime a little extrem in his opinion.

As for me, I finally know what's in an order marker

Last edited by Lyrgard; October 4th, 2012 at 05:09 AM.
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  #2480  
Old October 4th, 2012, 05:03 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by William099 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy View Post
How many votes are for the beakface sneaks and kheris fehn? They have to be close to review.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...postcount=2414

You can check that post for the latest vote counts... (since Kilo's last update) I've been keeping it updated...
if William099 gives his aggreement (and if noboby finds it a bad idea), could an admin or moderator with enough rights add this link in the OP ? Will help people find it, find updated infos on SoV's process and finally help Kilometer when he'll be back (Terminator-styled).
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  #2481  
Old October 4th, 2012, 08:05 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrgard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by William099 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy View Post
How many votes are for the beakface sneaks and kheris fehn? They have to be close to review.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...postcount=2414

You can check that post for the latest vote counts... (since Kilo's last update) I've been keeping it updated...
if William099 gives his aggreement (and if noboby finds it a bad idea), could an admin or moderator with enough rights add this link in the OP ? Will help people find it, find updated infos on SoV's process and finally help Kilometer when he'll be back (Terminator-styled).
Excellent idea. Sadly this thread is beyond my powers.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
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  #2482  
Old October 4th, 2012, 09:54 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Spoiler Alert!


I've copied Scytale's response above related to the Sneaks. It is excellent.

I tested the Sneaks a lot. The reason I did so was because in their first several games they destroyed the armies I brought them up against. They were simply vicious.

I was beginning to sketch out a NO vote for them based on those games, until I tried them against some of the 4-man bonding melee armies (Knights, Gruts, etc.). Then, I saw them fall (and fall hard).

I played a few more with them and finally decided that my first games had been fairly fortunate ones for the Sneaks, that they weren't as strong as I thought.

I'd compare them with the Cutters, another team easily overlooked, but quite strong when used well.

Like the Cutters, to really succeed they need (A) lots of them--I found that I really, really liked the Sneaks at 300 points (i.e. 10 squads) and (B) they need a big back-up, likely ranged--Kaemon, Q9, Incendiborgs, etc.

(Let me add that I didn't buy 10 squads of these guys--I wish!--I use the same system I have always used with Scape: I buy about 1-3 squads and then I used chess pawns as "filler." Whenever a Sneak moves or is attacked, etc., I make sure it is one of the "real" Sneaks. Whenever a Sneak dies, I remove a chess pawn and put a "real" Sneak in its place. Simple, easy, and a great way to play hordes, with having hordes of cash.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrgard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by William099 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy View Post
How many votes are for the beakface sneaks and kheris fehn? They have to be close to review.
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...postcount=2414

You can check that post for the latest vote counts... (since Kilo's last update) I've been keeping it updated...
if William099 gives his aggreement (and if noboby finds it a bad idea), could an admin or moderator with enough rights add this link in the OP ? Will help people find it, find updated infos on SoV's process and finally help Kilometer when he'll be back (Terminator-styled).
Excellent idea. Sadly this thread is beyond my powers.
Sadly, I, too, don't have Mod rights here. But perhaps if Killo doesn't show up soon, I think that I can arrange to have someone on the SoV have Mod powers here and get things caught up to date.

Right now I am catching up in the BoV from my completely undesired and unexpected absence thanks to a huge, crushing dose of RL. But we will get and keep things moving along fine. Just give us a moment.
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  #2483  
Old October 4th, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'd have no problem with that, I did send Kilo a link to that post in a PM so that when he comes back he could easily find it...

Customs here
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  #2484  
Old October 4th, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Of course I didn't buy the unit, I'm not going to buy the units before judging if they're pretty or not, I'm not that rich...
I'll not take the risk to buy them and then say "Oh yes, I was right, they're not pretty"...
If you could give us in-game pictures of them then I could reconsider but seeing the picture on the card they look ugly to me.

10th reg vs Sneaks 300points.
16 10th reg vs 20 Sneaks
I'll assume that a 10th reg can't kill a sneaks by range (which is not the case) and that is just a straight up melee battle.
10th reg: let's say 2 attacks of 3 (thanks to bayonet) and 2 attacks of 2, defense 3
Sneaks: 2 attacks of 3, defense 2
Even if the Sneaks are 4 more, the 10th have a great advantage, sneaks will need hot dices to win...

You said they've some bad machup, I've the felling that they've very few good machups (against 10th, 4th Mass) and all the rest is badmachups.
Okay they can win vs 10th, but you know, repulsors win against Deathreavers, that does not make them good....
The thing that makes an unit good is her versability, and Beackface Sneaks does not have any versability. They can win for sure, but they'll lose most of the time and I can bet all my money that they will never do good results in tournaments because of this lack of versatiliy (exactly like Omnicrons Repulsors).

Concerning species:
So you're telling that they're not really Raptorians, but the problem is that they're the only Raptorian squad so they represent Raptorians.
What the point to make them Raptorians if they're not real Raptorians? What's a "real" Raptorian?
They're way smaller than Raptorians, they can't be Raptorians, in fantasy the Dwarves looks like humans but they're not, because they're way smaller, it's the same. Or the Wilsuni, which clearly lokks like Marros but which are not, because they clear differences.

I know that SoV are only judges, but I've the feeling that you're too much strict for "good units" and not enough strict for "bad units".
A unit which could be A- or B+ can't be accepted in SoV atm, whereas it's far to be broken or overpriced....
On the other hand a unit which is bad but playable is easily accepted.

At least, the Sneaks are still better than Crug'Xrath so it's okay.
I'm waiting, keeping the hope that one day SoV will realease more units that you could in normal games (that means games that you play in order to win).

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