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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #61  
Old May 16th, 2017, 07:05 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

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Originally Posted by dok View Post

I haven't analyzed Mordo, but if you were testing him with Mesmerize every time and felt he was balanced then it's possible you were assuming too many of the points lie in Mordo and not enough in Mesmerize. But honestly, 15-20 points is not too significant on a big figure anyway. (Which is probably why it was so easy to overlook the value of Mesmerize.)
Actually, no, I wasn't - I started by testing him without Mesmerise at 260 then tested him with Mesmerise at 270. He felt absolutely fine each time, and Mesmerise never felt like a big deal. Going higher than 30 would not work for this spell, and even then only if you dropped Mordo's price back to 260.


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Last edited by Lazy Orang; May 16th, 2017 at 07:23 AM.
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  #62  
Old May 16th, 2017, 09:31 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote Pending

Looking through the last 4 playtests, why was Mesmerize tested with Hypnotize? If they both need their cost determined, they need to be playtested separately.

EDIT: And they were tested with Mordo? That's 3 unknowns in a single playtest!

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  #63  
Old May 16th, 2017, 09:40 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote Pending

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Looking through the last 4 playtests, why was Mesmerize tested with Hypnotize? If they both need their cost determined, they need to be playtested separately.

EDIT: And they were tested with Mordo? That's 3 unknowns in a single playtest!
They were all tested separately before being tested together - all three parts. They need to be tested together eventually, they're meant as part of a cohesive whole. We had them fairly settled by the time we brought Mordo in - it was all clearly handled in phases that I was extremely clear about explaining and posting as it went through the motions.


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  #64  
Old May 16th, 2017, 09:43 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote Pending

OK, good to know. Let's get CRB involved at the stage where we think they're fairly settled though.

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  #65  
Old May 16th, 2017, 09:59 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote Pending

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
OK, good to know. Let's get CRB involved at the stage where we think they're fairly settled though.
That's probably fair. I would like to note that some people were saying that, due to their interactions together, it wouldn't be really possible to get more than a working estimate of their cost before they were tried together - the final price was likely to be affected by their combination, which is why it was done this way.
Do you have any preferences for the price? Looking over the tests and what people were saying, I'm inclined to go for 260 for Mordo and 30 for each of the spells.


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  #66  
Old May 16th, 2017, 10:51 AM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

See Baron Mordo for the vote.


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  #67  
Old May 17th, 2017, 04:16 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Abandoned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
It becomes a counter draft only spell where you first need to know for sure your opponent has one or more of the 41 figures identified as having multiple normal attacks, and then you have to hope that figure ends up attacking your MD figure during that game, and you still don't whiff while rolling defense vs. their reduced attacks in order to earn back your points investment.
That looks like an easy fix:

NAME = MESMERISE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE SPELL


Immediately before an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of this figure rolls attack dice for a normal attack against this figure, you may cast this spell to subtract 3 dice from that figure's attack for the remainder of the turn to a minimum of 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
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Last edited by quozl; May 17th, 2017 at 05:18 PM.
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  #68  
Old May 17th, 2017, 04:18 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Abandoned

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
It becomes a counter draft only spell where you first need to know for sure your opponent has one or more of the 41 figures identified as having multiple normal attacks, and then you have to hope that figure ends up attacking your MD figure during that game, and you still don't whiff while rolling defense vs. their reduced attacks in order to earn back your points investment.
That looks like an easy fix:

NAME = MESMERISE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE SPELL
POINTS = 15 POINTS


Immediately before an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of this figure rolls attack dice for a normal attack against this figure, you may cast this spell to subtract 3 dice from that figure's attack for the remainder of the turn to a minimum of 1.
Look, if @dok 's happy to run with that, then fine, let's do it.


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  #69  
Old May 17th, 2017, 05:51 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Abandoned

Okay- @dok , what do you think of this at 20?

NAME = MESMERISE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE SPELL
POINTS = 20 POINTS


Immediately before an opponent's figure within 3 clear sight spaces of this figure rolls attack dice for a normal attack against this figure, you may cast this spell to subtract 3 dice from that attack to a minimum of 1.


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  #70  
Old May 17th, 2017, 05:59 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Abandoned

This definitely takes some of the edge off of the power. It's still pretty awesome against MD figures, conditional attackers like Black Canary, double skull figures, and figures with a bonus from a wound like Master Motivators. But it's definitely fewer figures that it's crazy good (i.e. an expected return of over 60 points) against.

15 is definitely still too low for that. Even if we just assume one attack of 5v5, the average value is over 20 points. But I'd sign off on 25 for that version, I think. At that level it's still useful for Mordo to set up the personality flip, but more marginal for other MD figures unless you know you are going to be facing a certain opponent. That's as it should be, IMO.
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  #71  
Old May 17th, 2017, 06:02 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Abandoned

Okay, I feel like we're back on track, and if people feel like that fits the theme, then I'm going to try to bring that back into the design.


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  #72  
Old May 17th, 2017, 07:09 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Danger Room Playtesting

Okay, what I'm going to do is move forward with Mordo and Hypnotise for now, and run another test for the revised Mesmerise this week - if anyone else wants to, that'd be greatly appreciated! If all works out, I should hopefully be able to get Mesmerise moving again early next week or this weekend.


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