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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old May 6th, 2017, 03:36 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I was just going to post all the info at once but since the Magic release is on deck for this summer and I have no idea when the glyph might come out I just edited out the info on the glyph right away. I can send you the info on the glyph and what impact it had on the game via PM though. Since the glyph has no associated point value and isn't part of one team or the other it should have had little to no effect on the spell value. You can make that final determination once I send you the related info though.
It's okay - as I said, having looked at the tests it seemed to have little impact, it just made me slightly uneasy to start with and I wanted to just say that I would prefer to avoid things like that in the future. That being said, thanks for sending me the information - looks like a damn cool glyph.


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  #38  
Old May 6th, 2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

Yeah, it was something ZJ was working on before he stepped down so the rest of the heroes have been trying to finish it up as we all really liked the idea.
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  #39  
Old May 7th, 2017, 06:27 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Mesmerize @ 25 & Hypnotize @ 35

Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Mesmerize x 1(25), Hypnotize x 1(35), Selene(360)
(420)

vs.
Deadpool(285), Harley Quinn(130) (415)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Custom
Units:
Mesmerize(25), Hypnotize(35), Meteorite(210), Raven(190) (460)
vs.
Superman(II) (450)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Custom
Units:
Mesmerize(25), Hypnotize(35), Malekith(220), Yellow Lantern(Scarecrow)(240) (520)
vs.
Green Lantern(Hal Jordan)(350), Rocket Raccoon(175) (525)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
I feel like both spells serve a decent use/purpose, even without Mordo. So I definitely dig them both. Malekith is going to like Mesmerize as well, as he can force the opponent to attack him instead of a friendly figure, so reducing the attack will help his own survivability a tad. Ultimately, I think with Mordo Hypnotize will certainly be all the better, but as-is, the points feel fair. Definitely useful, and I enjoy the theme.
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  #40  
Old May 14th, 2017, 02:22 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize (Danger Room Playtesting)

I Propose moving to Final Editing at 15!

@Tornado -
@johnny139 -
@Viegon -
@Yodaking - Yea
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Last edited by Lazy Orang; May 14th, 2017 at 02:41 PM.
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  #41  
Old May 14th, 2017, 02:37 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

I'd advise you re-post the Mordo/Spell tests here and link them to the FP. It will make it easier for the heroes who are not completely up to date to review their game impact.

Yea
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  #42  
Old May 14th, 2017, 02:41 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I'd advise you re-post the Mordo/Spell tests here and link them to the FP. It will make it easier for the heroes who are not completely up to date to review their game impact.

Yea
It may be worth posting them here, but they are all linked in the First Post already - I've been quite thorough with that.


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  #43  
Old May 14th, 2017, 02:50 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

My bad, I didn't look at the links I was just observing that the testers only posted the results in the one thread. Good to know you are already on top of things here.
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  #44  
Old May 15th, 2017, 12:30 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

Looking over the tests, 15 points seems really low. Win/Loss ratio only means so much for a cheap spell, but if I counted correctly, Mesmerize got 9 wins to 5 losses, with it consistently being used to prolong the spellcaster's life. The last defensive spell we tried to run was coming in at 50+ points, and while it was stronger, a 35+ point difference doesn't seem right between the two. Did the CRB ever comment on this spell? I'd really like to hear their thoughts before voting.

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  #45  
Old May 15th, 2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Looking over the tests, 15 points seems really low. Win/Loss ratio only means so much for a cheap spell, but if I counted correctly, Mesmerize got 9 wins to 5 losses, with it consistently being used to prolong the spellcaster's life. The last defensive spell we tried to run was coming in at 50+ points, and while it was stronger, a 35+ point difference doesn't seem right between the two. Did the CRB ever comment on this spell? I'd really like to hear their thoughts before voting.
The thing is, Mesmerise is often not really going to work out for you anyway - I dropped its price after All Your Pie's reports on it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
On the flip side, Mesmerize was fairly worthless. I don't doubt that this was bad luck, but I'm not sure maybe possibly saving a unit from a single attack is worth 25 points, even if it might also let you control them--the opponent has too many options for the latter part of that to really go off. I would actually bump Mesmerize to a -4 attack reduction before reducing its points. Even then the opponent can take steps to avoid a terribly brutal Hypnotic Arts by Mordo.

Mesmerize is still very corner case. A lot has to happen for it to really go off. Most of the time, it will just stop one attack, and it might not do even that. As is, I'd probably just treat Mordo and Hypnotize at 295 as the definitive Mordo rather than Mordo and both spells at 320.
And then had two full test sheets with it used with Mordo, and it felt fine - hell, in my first game with Mesmerise at 15 points + Mordo, it didn't even have any effect - Mordo would still have blocked the attack and Hypnotised Hulkbuster even if it wasn't there. I could see maybe bumping it a bit, but @All Your Pie thought it was clearly overcosted at 25


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  #46  
Old May 15th, 2017, 07:14 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

It's often hard to see the effects of a defensive power; it might seem like it does nothing, but saving a figure like Doc Strange or Selene from 1 wound and buying them another turn could result in that figure then dealing out a lot of points worth in damage on that extra turn.

The range and normal attack restrictions certainly help to keep this one in check, but that's somewhat mitigated by how it can effect multiple attacks and potentially save an MD figure from 2-3 wounds instead of just 1.

I'd still like to have the CRB double-check this spell before voting.

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  #47  
Old May 15th, 2017, 07:34 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

It definitely extended Mordo's life in both my games, and it's especially good protection against the kinds of figures MD users like least (the Furious Assaulters and various other figures that can hit 3-4 times in one turn). I don't see it as a super-niche thing.

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  #48  
Old May 15th, 2017, 08:49 PM
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing

Okay, let's bring the CRB in then: @dok , @Dysole , @Soundwarp SG-1 , @weebaer

~Lazy Orang, who isn't too hung up on the specific costing and just wants to see this through.


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