The Book of Adam Warlock

[dok]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Maybe wording to say OMs may never be placed on that card, rather than never revealed? That means taking it isn't asking for trouble with Joker and Mad Thinker. No matter what, I'll probably end up re-using the Dormant power on another design.

I flipped-flopped back and went with "Players cannot place Order Markers on this card or move with Adam Warlock." No need to create weirdness with Joker/Mad Thinker. I think this is sufficient to cover all corner cases.

EDIT: decided to go with this Cocoon update:

WARLOCK EMERGES
When this figure is destroyed, switch it with your other Adam Warlock figure. At the end of the round, you roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, you may destroy this figure.

[Yodaking]

After reading how Ronin reoganized the two soul gems powers I think I'd actually just go with this one soul gem power to get that thematic note in and then drop the second soul gem related power from the card all together.

Start the game with the Glyph of Infinty: Soul Gem on this card. Adam Warlock cannot lose this Equipment Glyph by taking wounds unless he is destroyed. After Adam Warlock uses the Soul Gem, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 10 or higher, place the figure from the Soul Gem back on the Soul Gem card instead of removing it from the game.

This power, along with the Silver Surfer power, and then one more power representing one of his '1000 other powers' seems like a really solid direction.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

After reading how Ronin reoganized the two soul gems powers I think I'd actually just go with this one soul gem power to get that thematic note in and then drop the second soul gem related power from the card all together.

This power, along with the Silver Surfer power, and then one more power representing one of his '1000 other powers' seems like a really solid direction.

I could see simplifying it enough so that it works on one power. The "Warlock can use the gem while on the gem" stuff is maybe a little too complex and arguably not really worth having in there (iconic to the history of Adam Warlock though it may be).

That said, the ability to pull friendly heroes onto the gem is, to me, pretty fundamental to the design, both thematically and mechanically. At the very least I don't want to lose that part.

Just to try it on for size, here's a one-power version that keeps that:

MASTER OF THE SOUL GEM
Start the game with the Glyph of Infinty: Soul Gem on this card. Adam Warlock cannot lose this Equipment Glyph by taking wounds unless he is destroyed. If Adam Warlock is equipped with the Soul Gem when Adam Warlock or a friendly figure that is not an Android within 3 spaces of Adam Warlock is destroyed, you may place that figure on the card of the Soul Gem. After Adam Warlock uses the Soul Gem, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 10 or higher, place the figure from the Soul Gem back on the Soul Gem card instead of removing it from the game.

EDIT: You could drop the "Adam Warlock or" part of that power for space, as it's obviously less important without the other stuff. (Still thematic though.) (And you ninja'ed my edit with the same comment, so yeah.)

[Yodaking]

If Adam can no longer use the gem after his death I'd consider cutting his line from the power just to shorten it a bit more but otherwise I'd be on board with giving him that power.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

If Adam can no longer use the gem after his death I'd consider cutting his line from the power just to shorten it a bit more but otherwise I'd be on board with giving him that power.

Yeah I made an edit to that effect as you were posting. Anyway, I'm open to this simplification. Would probably want something else in its place though. As we said there's a ton of other stuff we can represent on the card.

Maybe something having to do with "Cosmic Awareness"? Hm... that's already the name of a power for Mar-Vell and Genis-Vell; the d20 part would be fine here but the excess shields part obviously has too much overlap with energy transmutation. Could conceivably drop Energy Transmutation for that, but that still leaves the question of what a third power would be.

What I was thinking when I said Cosmic Awareness was something that represents his ability to sense disturbances and react to danger - something involving seeing OMs or manipulating initiative or rearranging his team's OMs in response to a threat, perhaps.

Let's bounce that around a bit.

[Lazy Orang]

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that, if something's iconic, you can work out a way to do it.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that, if something's iconic, you can work out a way to do it.

Oh, it's definitely iconic - to me, when popping out of the gem to turn Thanos to stone is one of the two most iconic moments in the character's history (the other being when he took the gauntlet to end the Infinity War). I would definitely like to have it on the card, and I'm still probably leaning that way.

That said, I don't think it's absolutely necessary to mimic that particular plot beat for the card to hit its theme, and there's a lot of other things you could do. The implementation of him popping out of the gem that I have in the second post right now is honestly not very strong, and I can see dropping it in favor of representing more of his powers.

That said, I do feel it's critical that the Soul Gem feel really important and powerful in his possession, which is why I don't want to lose the part where he can use his allies with the gem. That's also pretty iconic, and it makes the gem a lot more useful in his hands. So it's more of a clear win in terms of marrying theme and gameplay.

Designing in C3G (and C3V) is about keeping a clear vision of what you think is important in a design, and sticking with that while being flexible on other things. To me, the thing I'm sticking on is making the Soul Gem important, as opposed to the details of which Soul Gem tricks are represented.

[dok]

OK, at this point I think all the regulars have at least poked their heads in here. (Except maybe @quozl I think?) So, I'll throw some polls out there.

Question 1: Which of the following recycled cosmic-themed defensive powers do you prefer for Adam Warlock?

1. ENERGY TRANSMUTATION
   When Adam Warlock defends against an adjacent attack, you may remove a Wound Marker from this card if he has any excess shields.
   
   
2. COSMIC AWARENESS
   If an opponent chooses Adam Warlock for any special power and rolls the 20-sided die, you may subtract 4 from the roll. When rolling defense against an attack, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled. All excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

Question 2: Which of these awareness/tactician powers (if any) do you like?

1. Reactive OM rearrangement, e.g. "At the end of your opponent's turn, if an opponent attacked a friendly figure within clear sight of Adam Warlock, you may choose 1 unrevealed Order Marker on this card and place it on any other Army Card you control, or choose 1 unrevealed Order Marker on any other Army Card you control and place it on this card."
   
   
2. Threat-based initiative bonus, e.g. "When rolling for initiative, you may add 2 to your roll for each enemy figure within 10 spaces of Adam Warlock, up to a maximum of +8."
   
   
3. Sniffing out opponent's OMs, e.g. "Before taking a turn with Adam Warlock, you may choose an opponent's figure within 10 spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 10 or higher, you may view all unrevealed order markers on the chosen figure's Army Card."
   
   
4. I like the idea of a awareness/tactician power, but I don't like any of those approaches, or I'd mix and match them somehow.
   
   
5. I don't like the idea of a awareness/tactician power for Adam Warlock.

Question 3: Which of the following two options do you prefer for Adam Warlock?

1. One of the powers from question 2 (or similar), and the following power:

   MASTER OF THE SOUL GEM
   Start the game with the Glyph of Infinty: Soul Gem on this card. Adam Warlock cannot lose this Equipment Glyph by taking wounds unless he is destroyed. If Adam Warlock is equipped with the Soul Gem when a friendly figure that is not an Android within 3 spaces of Adam Warlock is destroyed, you may place that figure on the card of the Soul Gem. After Adam Warlock uses the Soul Gem, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 10 or higher, place the figure from the Soul Gem back on the Soul Gem card instead of removing it from the game.

2. The two power version from the second post:

   KEEPER OF THE SOUL GEM
   Start the game with the Glyph of Infinty: Soul Gem on this card. Adam Warlock cannot lose this Equipment Glyph by taking wounds unless he is destroyed. If Adam Warlock is equipped with the Soul Gem when Adam Warlock or a friendly figure that is not an Android within 3 spaces of Adam Warlock is destroyed, you may place that figure on the card of the Soul Gem.
   
   MASTER OF THE SOUL GEM
   If Adam Warlock is on the Soul Gem, no opponent can choose Adam Warlock when using the Soul Gem, and you may continue to reveal Order Markers on this card and use the Soul Gem as if Adam Warlock were equipped with it and on the same space as the glyph or the figure holding the glyph. After Adam Warlock uses the Soul Gem, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 10 or higher, place the figure from the Soul Gem back on the Soul Gem card instead of removing it from the game.

[Lazy Orang]

Question 1 - I don't know the character that well (1 Silver Surfer episode that doesn't seem to have been representative of the comic character) but I'm going to go for Energy Transmutation. Cosmic Awareness is just a massive pain in the arse to fight against (I know, Captain Mar-Vell was one of my Mum's go-tos for a while a few years back) and will massively knock this guy's price up. If you're going for this guy being a real titan over 400 points, though, then this would be the better pick.
Question 2 - From what you've been saying, a tactician based power doesn't really seem needed. I kind of like 2 when it comes to showing awareness, but I'd like the range brought down to feel more tactically significant (otherwise it's bordering on every figure on the board), and, honestly, I'm genuinely concerned that will break him with Joker - it's not even like an OM on this card restriction helps here, since you want this guy on the front lines. Not really a massive fan of the other two.
Question 3 - Version B seems much more mechanically interesting to me, a lot more fun to play and sounds like it's more fitting of his iconic moments as well.

[japes]

1. A
2. A

Question 3 is trickier to answer. I like A and fully understand it. B I'm actually not sure I understand what the MASTER OF THE SOUL GEM power is doing/saying. Why would he be on it and not pick it up and be equipped with it?

EDIT: I just figured it out again. If he's been destroyed and placed on the Soul Gem Card he's still treated as being alive for the purpose of the temporary revive and attack. I'm guessing you can still lose if he's on the card and all your other figures are destroyed.

I kind of like B I think. Though A is simple and allows you to fit ENERGY TRANSMUTATION, and your awareness/tactician powers on there.

I'm going to hold off on deciding #3 but my votes for #1 and #2 are my official vote.

[Yodaking]

As long as space isn't an issue, I'd go with B in question 1. He has a bunch of cosmic power in him and that one gives him 3 different aspects of that power in one card power.

Not a big fan of the tactician/awareness angle for him, I feel the Guardians of the Galaxy would be better served with those aspects of strategy showing up on other cards. So while I'm leaning D, I actually like the simplicity and usefulness of B while not seeing another GotG card that should have an initiative bonus power. I think it could fit in well as the 3rd power.

Then A for the Soul Gem power. I agree it should be a key component of the card and I think A achieves that while leaving some room on the card for a few other things.

That would result in a card that looked like this:

MASTER OF THE SOUL GEM
Start the game with the Glyph of Infinty: Soul Gem on this card. Adam Warlock cannot lose this Equipment Glyph by taking wounds unless he is destroyed. If Adam Warlock is equipped with the Soul Gem when a friendly figure that is not an Android within 3 spaces of Adam Warlock is destroyed, you may place that figure on the card of the Soul Gem. After Adam Warlock uses the Soul Gem, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 10 or higher, place the figure from the Soul Gem back on the Soul Gem card instead of removing it from the game.

THREAT ASSESSMENT
When rolling for initiative, you may add 2 to your roll for each enemy figure within 10 spaces of Adam Warlock, up to a maximum of +8.

COSMIC AWARENESS
If an opponent chooses Adam Warlock for any special power and rolls the 20-sided die, you may subtract 4 from the roll. When rolling defense against an attack, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled. All excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

I think that would all fit and make for a fun card.

[Ronin]

1. Energy Transmutation, for pretty much the same reason as LO. Not that his stats can't be played with or we couldn't shoot for a slightly higher point total, but I do like the lighter touch.

2. No strong preference for me here, but C of the ideas listed. I'd be cool with remixing them as well.

3. Gotta go A. I like the 'reviving himself from the Soul Gem' concept, but it does delve into some odd mechanical territory and it might be a little headache-y to implement cleanly and clearly on a card with a few other things going on. If it's on the chopping block, I'd chop it.