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  #37  
Old December 29th, 2020, 04:59 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

Well, even if I'd rushed them out, I wouldn't have gotten height over Q9. As on most modern maps, the best I could have hoped for was even ground, from one hill to the other. Q9's advantage - as I see it, the major will wear them down more effectively than they will get lucky against his big defense - in a head-to-head matchup is worth noting in the comparison.

Clearly I should not have led with Cal. But, again, it's worth noting how limited my options were. Lead with the Ants, which would have given board control, but the Queglix Gun would have annihilated them, or with the Borgs themselves, who would not have prevented Q9 from getting to equal height, as he did.

In other words, my army was (as I see it) ill-equipped for a matchup against Major Q9, I paid the price (as I often do, when I pick armies the way I pick them), and that's how a unit gets graded as an A/A+. Which is not to say that I'm much good at Heroscape, compared to you guys, but I don't think that I'm wrong in my own thoughts here.

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  #38  
Old December 30th, 2020, 09:14 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

I'm not saying Heavies should move down, but I'm pretty sure I'm bringing Dwarves over Heavies every time in a VC meta. Grimnak is too much of a liability. I think Dwarves deserve an A, and Heavies and Grimnak should probably be dropped to A-. Having Heavies rated higher than Dwarves doesn't make much sense to me; Dwarves should at least be rated the same as them.
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  #39  
Old January 3rd, 2021, 08:55 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

I think Dwarves to A Heavies to A- makes a lot of sense. Dwarves have received some very interesting tools in Beorn and Ulfrid; it's still to see if they replace Darrak or Mogrimm but at the very least they open up point total variety. Again I'm just hesitant on it since we don't have a lot of results indicative one way or another.

Mimring may deserve a move up from B after his finals appearance; it's pretty hard for a B figure to centerpiece in a Cheese event. I've always been a fan of him, took him to the 2014 Gencon Main Event Top 4. What he's really great at is punishing slow armies, which heroscaper2010 did very well to win against three traditional powerhouses of Cathar 10th and Rats. Mimring can just start blasting the startzone turn one. Other figures can do that (Syvarris) but the Arrow Gruts unboosted give him some safety, and with 3 defense 5 life he's a little sturdier than Syv.
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  #40  
Old January 3rd, 2021, 09:00 PM
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My Thoughts

If I had to rank the dwarf heroes, here's how I'd do it.

Darrak
Mogrimm
Ulfrid
Beorn
Migol

Beorn doesn't really do anything special for the dwarves but him being cheaper than Migol is why I slot him in ahead. They're all really solid figures though.

~Dysole, thinking the gradient is pretty close
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  #41  
Old January 3rd, 2021, 09:03 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

I think Beorn has some Cheese potential because Dwarves have some natural desire to work with Soulborgs and he kind of bridges that. Zetacron in particular is so good with Beorn. Beorn also gives Dwarves a nice boost in the Gladblast and Rat matchups.
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  #42  
Old January 3rd, 2021, 10:07 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

Mimring definitely deserves to go up. Every time I actually play him I'm reminded how awesome Fire Line is. Even though it can be played around to some extent, it's extremely disruptive to do so. He's not even bad with Greenscales, although naked AGs is better.
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  #43  
Old April 6th, 2021, 01:30 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

I'm moving Kuthnak up to A- after he had a great performance in the Peoria tournament this weekend. boromir took Kuthnak, Deathchasers x6, Nerak, MBS to a dominant win over infectedsloth's Dwarves x4, Ulfrid, Darrak, Johnny Shotgun Sullivan and a solid win over vegie dad's Knights x3, Sir Gilbert, Krug, Marro Warriors. Two wins over very solid melee bonding standbys.

boromir's build was only 500 points at a 515 point tournament; not a huge amount to sit but still significant. More significant because it's a great 500 point army for any tournament. Easily viable at 450 cutting a squad of Chasers. I was of the opinion that Kuthnak was at his best with Chasers before, since whirlwinds of 5 attack are insane, and I think I hold by that even more. MBS and Nerak are much more natural pairings for what Kuthnak backed Orcs want to do than the Orc Champion bonders. I've never loved Grimank with Kuthnak, since they kind of want to do opposite things. Grimnak wants to keep your Orcs alive and use those Orcs as physical protection around him, Kuthnak wants to send your Orcs in as missiles. Nerak is good for protecting the Deathchasers while they wait for the right missile opportunity to open up, and MBS puts pressure on your opponent from range. It's a much more natural combination, although the disengage from Heavies or Blades is definitely missed.

My original opinion on Kuthnak was that you can learn to play around him. This was really an opinion developed after two games; I played against him once against my dad and got demolished, then played against BodaciousBlood and fared a lot better after having some experience on how to deny the whirlwinds. Kuthnak can be played around, you can deny the whirlwind, but when you play around him you often open the Deathchasers to punish you in a different way. It's more complicated than playing around explosion attacks but it opens up your army in a similar way. And unlike explosion attacks, your opponent doesn't need an order marker to activate a Kuthnak bomb, they can just use it when there's an opportunity and decline it when there isn't.
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  #44  
Old May 3rd, 2021, 04:42 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

Some random moves to clean these rankings up a bit. As a reminder, with the fanning in my rankings I did due to increased number of figures in the game, B is the center of the rankings, so figures that are B are average. B+ is figures that are good, but can't always compete with the top tier, A- is figure just out of top tier, A is the top tier, and A+ is the glue figures for the top tier.

Pel the Hill Giant: B to B+. I have Dreadguls at B+ and I think he and Guilty are their best bonders, so they should all be at B+. Pel is just a cheap and solid option that gives the Dreadguls the big hits they love from Jotun but without spending 225 points on a giant.

Gothlok: B+ to B. Think this one was just excitement; haven't really seen him on the battlefield to much success yet. Not to say that he can't be, but he's too unproven to get a B+.

The Varja: B+ to B. Basically the same as above, although the Varja has seen a little more play I don't think he's found the success to deserve a B+. I don't know if he's found the optimal home yet either.

Some figures that I had not yet ranked:

Red Mantis Blade Dancers: Unranked to B. Think I just forgot to rank them when I was initially making this as they've been out for a while. If you squint, the nearly 50/50 roll for Stealth Armor and Dual Attack makes them a 4 man squad on offense and defense. The various ways in which those aren't the same as having additional squad members keeps them from being a real threat, but they are solid.

Specters of Aldorn: Unranked to B-. They have a lot of mobility, but a max of -1 on Spectral touch makes them an even more extreme version of Death Knights of Valkrill where they can only compete against things with low defense.

Re-Tak-Shi: Unranked to B. She is like Concan for a lot of things. One edge she has over Concan is the things she boosts have range so it's easier to get extra dice from her, so she could go higher, but also the things she helps are bad so I think this is right for now.

Spoiler Alert!
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  #45  
Old May 3rd, 2021, 05:31 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

Kuthnak should be an F. Kuthnak is bad.

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  #46  
Old May 13th, 2021, 06:40 PM
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Re: vegie's C3V/SoV Power Rankings

I've officially demoted the Heavy Gruts down to A- in my VC power rankings. Have had this on my mind for a while; they weren't played in either C3V Cheese event, but absence is hard to use as evidence of weakness. However in this case I think it is.

This is no statement against them in Classic Scape, they are still very good there. But in VC allowed they are not quite as good. Cathar Spearmen are so much more brutal for them than Knights, since Grimnak is the heart of the army and has to tank the Braced Spears. Heracles is tough for them too. I don't think they're unusable, but breaking them out in a C3V meta you're almost always wishing you had Knights, or even Dwarves. Dwarves have gotten great new bonding options, Knights have heroes okay with tanking spears, Heavies have just stayed the same.

I also moved Drudge from D to C+ because of Re-Tak-Shi, who massively helps them on and off swamp boards. Could see them going even higher, but they definitely aren't D anymore.

I'm considering some further fanning of the rankings; the B section is giant with how many figures there are so I think I need to split things up even further. There's plenty of space at the bottom, no need to have tiers on their own for truly bad figures, and I can always add a D+ and D- if needed.
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