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  #1  
Old February 18th, 2013, 03:31 PM
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The Pre-SoV Workshop

This thread is not affiliated with the SoV and does not guarantee any custom success in passing the SoV.

Hello all, the goal of this thread is to get people a chance to have their customs examined before they are submitted to the SoV. I know that at least 4 of the judges monitor this thread, so it's a great way to get some feedback.

Just make a post with your card/stat block and see what people say.

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Last edited by greygnarl; August 24th, 2013 at 02:48 PM.
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  #2  
Old February 18th, 2013, 03:32 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

[reserved]

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  #3  
Old February 18th, 2013, 03:35 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'd put the same non-affiliation caveats in this thread as you did in the other one.
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  #4  
Old February 18th, 2013, 11:17 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I've encouraged threads like this in the past. I think it's an excellent idea and I encourage custom makers to use it. I'll gladly offer my here and there, when I have the time.

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  #5  
Old February 19th, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.
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  #6  
Old February 19th, 2013, 12:07 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshMEL View Post
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.
Cool. I'll talk about it with capsocrates first though, since his vision is what helps to shape this.

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  #7  
Old February 19th, 2013, 02:15 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshMEL View Post
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.
Hm. I don't really have a road map because every designer is different and not all customs should be made for the SoV. The liveliness of the customs department would be hurt, I think, if people stopped making customs that are too outside-the-box for the canon in one way or another. For a beginner I want to suggest a number of things.

*Playtest for the C3V. If you do this a lot, you'll have a shot at the Public Access Program, which is quite possibly one of the best learning experiences for a customs designer if you make use of it. Even if you don't get to be a C3V Public Access Member, the experience of analyzing the units and playing with them will give you a better feel for working with customs.

*Alternatively, playtest in the Playtest Exchange. If you're not interested in the C3V PAM (Public Access Member) route, this will serve a similar purpose as far as experience with analyzing and playtesting goes, and will also help you to build up points for when you have a unit you want others to playtest.

*Follow the customs threads of designers more experienced than yourself. Participate in conversations there. I suggest Son of Arathorn, Scytale, Lamaclown, and Super Bogue as examples, just to name a few. If you participate in their threads and have helpful, constructive dialogue it is more likely that others will be interested in giving the same in your own thread.

*Keep a journal (or folder, or whatever) of ideas. Let them sit and marinate some. Play with them. Wait to post them to your custom thread until you feel they've matured past infancy. What I've noticed about most of the good customs designers is that they only post one idea (or sometimes a group of closely related ideas) at a time, so that they can give people time to process and think about their design. They also don't seem to post every idea they have. Much like you might hear someone suggest for creative writing, I don't think its best to share something until you've had the chance to edit and rework it a few times on your own, in private. Sometimes after some time has passed and you see it with fresh eyes, you'll know what needs to be changed so that it works--or you'll realize that it's not an idea worth pursuing. You might decide to share it at that time.

*Keep in mind that not every idea is destined for the canon. One of the joys of custom design is the creativity of it. If you try to make every custom something that would be approved at the SoV you'll miss out on some fun opportunities to think outside the box and do something more original.

*If your goal is to make customs that are in-line with the canon, think about precedent. You don't have to have the same ideas as myself or anyone else, but you should seek to gain your own understanding of what has been done before and what hasn't, and why; and what is okay to do for the first time and what's not, and why.

*Have your units peer-reviewed. You may get enough feedback from comments in your thread, but if not, try to get the unit through 3FG or a similar workshop.

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Last edited by caps; February 19th, 2013 at 02:46 PM.
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  #8  
Old February 19th, 2013, 03:09 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshMEL View Post
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.
As for my personal vision for how this particular thread relates to the others: 3FG and CHG24 focus on making your custom the best it can be. They're not necessarily concerned with the canon, or with other thematic concerns. I envision this thread as a place where fans and judges alike could discuss how a unit might or might not fit into the canon.

There are other things that should be discussed here as well, of course, but most of them are handled by 3FG and CHG24.

greygnarl himself (and maybe even some of the other SoV judges), may have other ideas for the purpose of this thread as well.

There are many little things that will be left alone in 3FG or CHG24 that will bother fans or judges come nomination time. Ideally, this thread would be an opportunity to address those things before the unit enters SoV review and becomes essentially unchangeable.

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  #9  
Old February 19th, 2013, 03:11 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IshMEL View Post
Looking forward to this! Maybe you can outline how you see this group in relation to the 3FG, the CHCG24, and your new playtesting exchange group. For a beginner, having a "road map" would be helpful in thinking about where to go for advice.
As for my personal vision for how this particular thread relates to the others: 3FG and CHG24 focus on making your custom the best it can be. They're not necessarily concerned with the canon, or with other thematic concerns. I envision this thread as a place where fans and judges alike could discuss how a unit might or might not fit into the canon.

There are other things that should be discussed here as well, of course, but most of them are handled by 3FG and CHG24.

greygnarl himself (and maybe even some of the other SoV judges), may have other ideas for the purpose of this thread as well.
I agree with this mostly. The other purpose for this thread is that it could make a community custom ala Kheris Fehn to submit to the SoV. That would be something for the future though if enough people were interested.

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  #10  
Old February 19th, 2013, 12:31 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

In other news, here's my attempt at the Green Wyrmling. capsocrates was concerned that it was too anti-hero, but heroes rarely have to waorry about Counter Strike since it deals only 1 wound and they can usually use a Special, or jsut roll too many dice for it too matter.It's been reduced to 4 defense, and had it's attack brought up to 4 to better fit in with Charos' 5/5. I tested it with Raelin against Knights, and though it won, it didn't feel completely one-sided (the Knights had a chance). That was at 3/5 though. 4 defense makes CS a bit less potent, and he has less offensive power than the other Wyrmlings due to the lack of special. The 4/4 makes up for that I think.

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  #11  
Old February 19th, 2013, 01:52 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

There's been a lot of discussion about creating a Green Wyrmling. This thread is the most recent community attempt. I've argued before about how I see such a thing as neither necessary nor fitting, and I believe I did in that thread too.

Putting that aside, yours is a very interesting twist on Fledgling Counterstrike. The once-per-turn limitation holds the power back significantly in a simple way. Still, adding Raelin makes them much stronger, and the design punishes heroes and squads with low numbers of figures.

Beyond that, though, personally I would never agree to the choice of figure. A bronze dragon is not a green dragon any more than a daisy is not a tulip. Even if you paint it green and say it's from Icaria, that dragon design is clearly a D&D bronze dragon. I couldn't get past that.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 03:30 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Beyond that, though, personally I would never agree to the choice of figure. A bronze dragon is not a green dragon any more than a daisy is not a tulip. Even if you paint it green and say it's from Icaria, that dragon design is clearly a D&D bronze dragon. I couldn't get past that.
Well, we already have an adult blue dragon (Quahon) who somehow lost/absorbed his front legs (see Blue Wyrmling) on the way to adulthood.

A color change doesn't see so drastic to me.
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