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  #445  
Old July 15th, 2022, 05:02 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Yay

With 4/5 votes in (since Iím not voting), that makes Turmoil our 14th WoS map!
WOOT!
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  #446  
Old July 15th, 2022, 06:52 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Yay

With 4/5 votes in (since Iím not voting), that makes Turmoil our 14th WoS map!

Iíll get the op updated in a few days, but the timer has now started on Hellsgate.
Congrats superfrog and Turmoil!
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  #447  
Old July 16th, 2022, 03:22 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Now for an unpopular vote:

Dry Season is an excellent use of a single RotV set, but it includes Raelin/dragon perches that can be quite deadly. While the map is short, allowing melee a fair shot in many cases, a strong Raelin+ranged army can do serious damage, especially if Reavers have a chance to tie up units. The central canyon also can be rough on melee units needing to make lateral movement. The glyphs are also exposed from the central height--in fact, the central height, other than some wall spaces blocked, are quite dominant on this map.

I have used this map at tourneys, but I always avoid it for championship contests. It is perhaps the best RotV map, but I think WoS maps shouldn't just be the best of a certain terrain type. I vote NO to induct Dry Season.
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  #448  
Old July 19th, 2022, 10:27 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

The first posts are updated with the recent votes, and Turmoil is now in the display thread.
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  #449  
Old July 20th, 2022, 02:56 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread



Iíd like to nominate Wingspan. It uses 1 BftU, 1 SotM, and 1 TJ, with 2 random glyphs.

Tournament Use: Utah Monthlies (September 2021, June 2022), Peoria Monthlies (October 2021, December 2021, January 2022, March 2022), OHS (VCheese #3), ScapeCon II.

Wingspan is somewhat a sequel to the newly-inducted Turmoil in that it uses 1 SotM and 1 BftU. Itís also somewhat of a sequel to The Jabberwock, which in turn is a sequel to The Borogoves, in that it uses a central shadow pool around a jungle tree. One big difference is that Wingspanís center (and the bulk of the map) is level 2.

The four defining features of Wingspanís gameplay in my experience are the aforementioned shadow/jungle pool, the central level 3/4 rock feature, the level 3 rock 7-hex on the right, and the level 3 swamp 2-hex on the left. Each has its strengths and gameplay tends to swing between these as development progresses. Since much of the map is level 2, pathing is strong and each of these features is attackable.

Iíve also included some feedback collected on this map from a few sources in the spoiler below. Most of it is positive, but Iíve included all the recent feedback for the sake of completion:

Spoiler Alert!
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  #450  
Old August 1st, 2022, 11:07 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Hellsgate
Before sharing my thoughts, I think it's worth pointing out (credit to @superfrog for making me aware of it) that Hellsgate was nominated to the BoV 11 years ago, and it did not make the cut. The two downvotes interestingly enough, came from current WoS judges. @1Mmirg 's vote can be found here, and @Dignan 's vote here. I find I agree with the majority of what they have stated in their reviews, though I am interested to hear if their opinions on the map have changed with time.

I expected more of this map than it delivered (largely due to Mad_Wookie's influence on mapmaking - I consider MW as among the best), though I did have reservations from the beginning.

1) I like split start zones, but I think this one takes it a bit too far with the amount of water and the placement of water between start zones. It limits development a lot more than it should imo. The problem is also aggravated by the fact that the map pulls right out of the start zone in a negative way - that side is clearly better to try and set up on, and it's the side that has the majority of the start zone. There were some things done in the design to try and slow down development on that right side, looking at that awkward road dip and battlement placement specifically, but it still is such a central focus of development.

2) I don't like how the ruins are placed in conjunction with the level four height (the seven hex piece and the opposing clump of five hexes on level four to be specific). It sets up potential stare downs in some matches that can be painful - who is going to be the first to come around the corner of the ruins and attack the opponent on height? Another key part of my dislike here is how narrow the outside edges are - that area gets bogged down so easily.

3) Climbing out of the start zone feels too burdensome to me. Flying has a large advantage here as they can get into the action very quickly.


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Last edited by Flash_19; August 1st, 2022 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Forgot something
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  #451  
Old August 13th, 2022, 03:46 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Rocky Mounds by Leaf_It

We’ve had some good discussions on this map in our WoS private spaces so this review (while definitely expressing my own thoughts) also synthesizes some thoughts from a few other judges, who may or may not have a review written in time for the deadline today. Rocky Mounds has a couple main faults that have come up in these discussions that I’ll summarize below.

1. There’s lots of places for ranged pods to set up. I’m not one to shy away from intermediate local height perches, but Rocky Mounds has a LOT of them. 16 perches in total, compared to 8 or fewer on every other WoS map. There are 4 grass perches along each side of the map and then 4 rock perches towards the center on each side. That pretty much means that no matter where you are on a map, you can send a few guys to grab height where they won’t be able to be easily countered.

2. It is very long and the road doesn’t seem to help with the length. There are 15 hexes between the start zones at all points which makes it longer than any existing WoS map. And while much of the road is straightforward and gets where you might be trying to go, the beginning/end (depending on which side of the road you are taking) gets really convoluted really fast, making it an ineffective movement booster. This issue really stacks with the first one, since melee is slowed on their closing maneuvers and range can quickly retreat to the next height perch.

3. The ruin leads to unbalanced play in the center. In my games both armies often stayed away from the center level 3/4 rock formation, but range/screen combos can really be tricky to counter when they have the leg of the ruin preventing height attacks down from level 3 to level 2. So a Nilf/Greenies army, for example, always wants that one side of the map.

Overall Rocky Mounds is a pretty good map, and I definitely haven’t played my last game on it, but I think it falls short of both of our existing WoS maps with the same/smaller terrain requirements (Aeon and Highways & Dieways). I’d like to see it revisited a little shorter than its current form and perhaps with streamlined edges to reduce the podding potential. For now, to induct.
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  #452  
Old August 13th, 2022, 04:09 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Rocky Mounds: I'm in pretty much the same place as superfrog: don't love it, don't hate it. It's a lot longer than it needs to be. The elevation is pretty much limited to yours-and-mine spaces, except for the central height. The central height works pretty well, but it's a little interesting that the road doesn't approach it at all, and that it's limited to how small it is. Some more level 3 around it could help out, with some road approaching and/or reaching level 3 (not that it has to be completely surrounded by road).

The crook of the ruin is problematic. These pictures I took show an extremely easy to set up, and extremely strong, Nilfheim pod. Just stick Raelin in the middle and you're golden.

Here's the pod with the crook in your favor:


Here's the pod with the crook not in your favor:


This is where you have to extend to if you don't have the crook in your favor:


Where does this put us? Well, the map needs some tweaks. Maybe use both ruins up top, or try to limit the effect that the crook has on protecting a screen.

Overall, not a bad map, but not what I'm looking for in a WoS map (and as superfrog said, Aeon and H&D both exist). NO to induct.
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  #453  
Old August 13th, 2022, 04:31 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Thanks for the feedback guys.
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  #454  
Old August 16th, 2022, 04:18 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Announcement

We at WoS are excited to make an important announcement! It only took a year....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Over/under number of frogs as judges: 1.5
... But we are pleased to announce that @BiggaBullfrog is joining WoS as a judge, thereby bringing our total number of frogs up to 2! We are excited to have him on board.

Congrats, Bigga!

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  #455  
Old August 16th, 2022, 04:27 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
Announcement

We at WoS are excited to make an important announcement! It only took a year....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Over/under number of frogs as judges: 1.5
... But we are pleased to announce that @BiggaBullfrog is joining WoS as a judge, thereby bringing our total number of frogs up to 2! We are excited to have him on board.

Congrats, Bigga!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19's signature
"I think you're absolutely correct in your logic and reasoning and couldn't agree more." ~BiggaBullfrog
Hmm, looks to me like a scheme to get more Flash_19 maps into WoS...

can't say I'll complain!

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  #456  
Old August 16th, 2022, 04:42 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Been a hard couple hours for me without Bigga alongside me on a judging panel. Glad that ordeal is over.
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