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  #685  
Old May 5th, 2014, 08:48 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Sure, Taelord is a little more mobile, but that Strider has way more offensive punch and can get into position without OMs. For 40 points less. That makes him way better for any Army that can use his Melee attack boost.

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  #686  
Old May 5th, 2014, 08:50 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Aragorn's transition to becoming a king was a slow one. I feel his deeds at Helm's Deep was during this transition period, and is more of an Elessar attribute.

Edit: ninja'd!
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  #687  
Old May 5th, 2014, 09:11 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

For an offensive power, why not reuse C3G's Swordplay? That's what I used (with a new name and very minor tweaks).


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  #688  
Old May 5th, 2014, 09:37 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Sure, Taelord is a little more mobile, but that Strider has way more offensive punch and can get into position without OMs. For 40 points less. That makes him way better for any Army that can use his Melee attack boost.
Again, I repeat my question:
What melee army do you use Taelord in right now that would be obsolete because of Aragorn?
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  #689  
Old May 5th, 2014, 09:40 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Sure, Taelord is a little more mobile, but that Strider has way more offensive punch and can get into position without OMs. For 40 points less. That makes him way better for any Army that can use his Melee attack boost.
Again, I repeat my question:
What melee army do you use Taelord in right now that would be obsolete because of Aragorn?
My answer would be: none, because playing Taelord, especially in a melee army, is generally suicide anyway.


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  #690  
Old May 5th, 2014, 09:48 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

LazyO, unfortunately Swordplay has a lot of tricky edge-cases and just plain weird interactions when moved over to a Classic interpretation of power-text. C3G wand-waves all that away but that won't work for us. I love it as a C3G power though.

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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Sure, Taelord is a little more mobile, but that Strider has way more offensive punch and can get into position without OMs. For 40 points less. That makes him way better for any Army that can use his Melee attack boost.
Again, I repeat my question:
What melee army do you use Taelord in right now that would be obsolete because of Aragorn?
I don't typically use Taelord, but I could see him with Goblin Cutters, Warriors of Ashra, and Anubian Wolves off the top of my head. I see it as a moot point, though, as we're looking to address more of the Strider characteristics of the character.

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  #691  
Old May 5th, 2014, 10:40 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I don't typically use Taelord, but I could see him with Goblin Cutters, Warriors of Ashra, and Anubian Wolves off the top of my head. I see it as a moot point, though, as we're looking to address more of the Strider characteristics of the character.
I looked through the tournament armies played thread for Taelord. Here are the 15 most recent armies that used the Kyrie:

Taelord, Atlaga, Cyprien, Sonya, Minionsx3
Omnicron Snipers X 2, Taelord, Warriors of Ashra X 2
Cyprien, Taelord, Raelin (RotV), Protectors of Ullar x4
Taelord, Nakitas, Laglor, Krav, Raelin, Isamu
Taelord, Atlaga, Minions of Utgar x 2, Johnny "Shoutgun" Sullivan
Rats x5, Taelord, Krav
2x Snipers, Taelord, Repulsors, Fen Hydra
Taelord, 4x Deathreavers, Zetacron, MW, Guilty
Taelord, 2x Snipers, Theracus, Guilty McCreech
3x Protectors of Ullar, Atlaga, Taelord
3x Omnicron Snipers, 3x Omnicron Repulsors, Taelord
Taelord, 4x Stingers, Zettian Guards, Isamu
Taelord, Rotv Raelin, Syvarris, Zetacron, Krav , Guilty
Taelord, 3 x Omnicron Snipers
5x 4th Mass, Raelin, Taelord

Of those 15 armies, only 2 armies were mostly melee--and they were made up of 4x and 5x Deathreavers. (By the way, both Taelord/Rats armies did REALLY well.)

So you seem to be worried that Aragorn will displace Taelord in a mostly Rats army, which turns out to be a tiny percentage of Taelord armies. Usually he is paired with ranged units.

I really don't like how you so quickly dismissed my suggested special ability with such a weak argument. Just say you don't like it--I can accept that. But don't try to back it up and make it sound like an official ruling by spouting that he'll displace Taelord when he really won't. When people do that it makes me upset.
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  #692  
Old May 5th, 2014, 11:01 PM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
I really don't like how you so quickly dismissed my suggested special ability with such a weak argument. Just say you don't like it--I can accept that. But don't try to back it up and make it sound like an official ruling by spouting that he'll displace Taelord when he really won't. When people do that it makes me upset.
I did WK. I did say that I didn't like it for Strider:
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I don't think I like the ENHANCED ATTACK AURA. I don't think I like an Attack Enhancement for Strider in general
Then I followed it up with an additional, metagame reason:
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
I particularly don't like one that makes Taelord obsolete in melee armies.
And I still think this is true, regardless of what the last 15 melee armies featuring Taelord posted in the Armies played thread says about his use in Melee armies. The +1 Attack Aura is Taelord's space. It is his specialty, and I don't want to take it away from him. Period.

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EDIT: And the use of rats with Taelord is not a point in your favor. Those armies both went 5-0 and were, I'm sure, very obnoxious to play against. A 140 Taelord for rats means they get an additional squad. Also consider the Axegrinders with that. They wouldn't even need a bonding hero. It just seems like a bad idea to me from top-to-bottom.

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Last edited by caps; May 5th, 2014 at 11:27 PM.
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  #693  
Old May 6th, 2014, 07:44 AM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
EDIT: And the use of rats with Taelord is not a point in your favor. Those armies both went 5-0 and were, I'm sure, very obnoxious to play against. A 140 Taelord for rats means they get an additional squad. Also consider the Axegrinders with that. They wouldn't even need a bonding hero. It just seems like a bad idea to me from top-to-bottom.
You're giving me handwaving and generics. I asked for specific melee armies where you've used Taelord. You're response leaves me to believe that it's zero.

As LazyO said:
Quote:
My answer would be: none, because playing Taelord, especially in a melee army, is generally suicide anyway.
You mentioned Axegrinders--but show me one tournament army where Taelord showed up with the dwarves. I asked for concrete examples, you gave me theoryscaping. The truth is, adding an Aragorn with that power is NOT going to take away from Taelord's domain, because he HAS no domain for melee armies. Even in your own battles he won't be replacing Taelord because, as far as I can tell, you've never used Taelord with an all-melee army.

Not only that, but if it's a power issue in playtesting we can raise Aragorn's points. I wasn't locked into 140 points. Make his points 200 and now Taelord is a better bet in ranged armies and probably also in melee armies.

You don't want the power on Strider, fine. I didn't realize we were confining Strider to The Fellowship of the Ring and not including his role in the Two Towers. But since we are, I'll save that power for Aragorn the coming king.

Last edited by White Knight; May 6th, 2014 at 08:25 AM.
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  #694  
Old May 6th, 2014, 09:55 AM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
EDIT: And the use of rats with Taelord is not a point in your favor. Those armies both went 5-0 and were, I'm sure, very obnoxious to play against. A 140 Taelord for rats means they get an additional squad. Also consider the Axegrinders with that. They wouldn't even need a bonding hero. It just seems like a bad idea to me from top-to-bottom.
You're giving me handwaving and generics. I asked for specific melee armies where you've used Taelord. You're response leaves me to believe that it's zero.
I don't understand why it's such a big deal to you whether or not I have personally played Taelord in melee armies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
As LazyO said:
Quote:
My answer would be: none, because playing Taelord, especially in a melee army, is generally suicide anyway.
You mentioned Axegrinders--but show me one tournament army where Taelord showed up with the dwarves.
So there's no room for theoryscape in your design discussions? Ever? I think:
180 Taelord
80 Raelin
210 3xAxegrinders
+ filler (or Darrak)
would be a decent army to take to a tournament. or even:

180 Taelord
210 3xAxegrinders
110 Migol Ironwill

I don't know that it has been done, though it sounds interesting to try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
I asked for concrete examples, you gave me theoryscaping. The truth is, adding an Aragorn with that power is NOT going to take away from Taelord's domain, because he HAS no domain for melee armies.
No, he most certainly does. His price is prohibitive but if you want a +1 Attack Aura that doesn't require adjacency, Taelord is the guy you go to. Most people don't do it in a tournament because they decide they'd rather spend the points elsewhere, but the power you're proposing would remove Taelord from that potential almost completely.

Furthermore, if I wasn't clear enough before, Taelord's undefeated success both times he was used with a pile o' rats makes me 100% opposed to reusing that aura for melee figures on any hero that is either cheaper or more potent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Even in your own battles he won't be replacing Taelord because, as far as I can tell, you've never used Taelord with an all-melee army.
Irrelevant. And for the record, Taelord was used with Hydras in an all-hero tournament on the East Coast. That army placed 3rd of 17.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
You don't want the power on Strider, fine. I didn't realize we were confining Strider to The Fellowship of the Ring and not including his role in the Two Towers.
I wouldn't divide it up quite that way. I think we're shooting to captures Strider leading up to The Fellowship of the Ring and going all the way to his pursuit of the Uruk-Hai with Legolas and Gimli. Aragorn does more in The Two Towers than just fight in Helm's Deep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
But since we are, I'll save that power for Aragorn the coming king.
Why does it have to be a 4-space Aura? Why not an adjacent Aura like the Viking champs? There are lots of better, less dangerous ways to represent Aragorn leading people. But I guess we should save this discussion for later.

EDIT: More melee armies using Taelord:

bengi in Online Season 13 (active right now)
Zombie Hulk, Zombies of Morindan x4, Taelord the Kyrie Warrior, Brunak, Drow Chainfighter x2

Ixe in Online Season 11
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior, Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [SotM], Empress Kiova, Minions of Utgar x2, Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior, Einar Imperium x2, Marcu Esenwein (admittedly, this is an army where the Minions make an appearance)

MegaSilver in Classic League: Casualties of War
Marro Drones x8, Taelord, Marcu

Deroche in Online Season 9
Warriors of Ashra x4, Acolarh, Taelord the Kyrie Warrior, Otonashi
Skylord613 in Online Season 9
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [RotV], Taelord the Kyrie Warrior, Zombies of Morindan x4

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Last edited by caps; May 6th, 2014 at 10:35 AM.
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  #695  
Old May 6th, 2014, 09:58 AM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

If we can't agree on an offensive power, why not a 2-power card?
Quote:
NAME = ARAGORN
GENERAL = ULLAR
PLANET = ARDA
SPECIES = DUNEDAIN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = RANGER
PERSONALITY = RESOLUTE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5

DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 90
??

DUNEDAIN TRACKING
Before the game, choose a unique Army Card. After the chosen Army Card takes a turn, you may move Strider 2 spaces.

RANGER OF THE NORTH
After taking a turn with Strider, if he is unengaged, you may choose an adjacent unengaged friendly figure. Strider and the chosen figure have no visible Hit Zones until the next time you reveal an Order Marker.

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Last edited by caps; May 7th, 2014 at 01:36 AM. Reason: fixed line break typo
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  #696  
Old May 6th, 2014, 10:31 AM
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Re: HoME Brainstorming Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
LazyO, unfortunately Swordplay has a lot of tricky edge-cases and just plain weird interactions when moved over to a Classic interpretation of power-text. C3G wand-waves all that away but that won't work for us. I love it as a C3G power though.
Such as? I don't see them.


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