X-Wing

[Deroche]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I'm really curious what the big changes are. I read the product description and it looks like it's the same as v1 except now pilots can have force tokens.

I also see they're making the new S-Foils upgrade part of the original set. Mostly it just seems like an opportunity to rebalance all the ships in a less ham-handed way than the new Saw's Renegades set (I mean, I love X-Wings so it's an exciting set, but...).

There was no where else for them to go design-wise, and the result was showing up as such in the tournaments. Lately, the only time there's been any kind of excitement has been after either a new wave release or a FAQ change as people try to discover what is good/competitive. Once the meta becomes solved each time, it's the same stuff showing up over and over again and a lot of it was SUPER broken. Sounds familiar. But, unlike Heroscape, where we at least have different rulesets and point costs for our tournaments, X-Wing suffers from the same event format every single time (100 point lists and six obstacles) and FFG hasn't really done much to change that. They do have a bring-two format, called "Hangar Bay", but it's often just a side event as something to kill time once you've been knocked out of the main tournament.

Now they plan to have an app that determines the point cost of each ship and upgrade, so the balance has become completely separate from the design. If a feature becomes too powerful and hence too common? Just raise the cost. It gets done whenever they choose to upload the values to the app and it will be instantaneous. No more people showing up to events not knowing of FAQ changes/nerfs. And they've said the app will be the means through which they introduce different kinds of events as well, specifically mentioning how they plan to target the casual and thematic players, as well as the competitive. This way everyone can show up to the local store and have a chance or play what they're the most interested in.

[NecroBlade]

@Deroche, you should put that in a podcast or something.

I really like the idea of events with different rule sets, because I've always enjoyed the challenge of adapting both build and play style to different circumstances.

[rudyvalentine]

I do like how they are describing the changes and the control they will have over balancing the game. What will determine if I buy in or not (besides budget) will be how many local players buy in. We have a decent group at our local shop, but many are newer, just getting into the game within the last year. It will be interesting to see how 2.0 is received locally. I won’t invest a lot into converting all my current stuff and buying a new core set if there are not enough local players supporting it to make it worth my money.

[caps]

Ohhhhh. I missed that the point costs are defined by the app. I thought the app was just a convenience thing. I can't say I like that idea very much... especially for non-competitive play. If I have my snowflake build that works fine when I play with my brother but suddenly I can't afford it anymore because competitive players found away to break one of the cards... yick.

How many games outside of Heroscape turn to alternative formats in order to mix things up? FFG apparently doesn't do it. I've seen Summoner Wars do it.

[Hahma]

From what I heard, competitive isn't a big percentage of the money for X-Wing. But perhaps the competitive players spend more per person, but as a whole, still a small percentage. I don't know for sure. But it seems like FFG deems them important enough to overhaul and perhaps lose some casual game customers.

Though, perhaps they are smart to do this for people that will be getting into the game from here on out, ones that will start from scratch with 2.0. But if they go 3.0 in a few years, that would be a real F you to customers.

[rudyvalentine]

Originally Posted by Hahma

From what I heard, competitive isn't a big percentage of the money for X-Wing. But perhaps the competitive players spend more per person, but as a whole, still a small percentage. I don't know for sure. But it seems like FFG deems them important enough to overhaul and perhaps lose some casual game customers.

Though, perhaps they are smart to do this for people that will be getting into the game from here on out, ones that will start from scratch with 2.0. But if they go 3.0 in a few years, that would be a real F you to customers.

I do think the game is in need of a re-balancing. Our group does tournaments every month, but I don’t see anyone flying the current meta lists. They build what they want to try and what they think can win. Even in a less competitive environment many of the early ships are just obsolete compared to the most recent waves.

My friend has the same concern you just voiced though about this being a recurring issue. Will the game be right back to where it is now in 3-4 years? I think the app driven costs and upgrade slots will help for sure. It’s almost as if they are turning the competitive scene into a large playtest group. Design, test, release, see what’s broken and adjust via the app.

[Deroche]

Originally Posted by rudyvalentine

It’s almost as if they are turning the competitive scene into a large playtest group. Design, test, release, see what’s broken and adjust via the app.

It's not almost, that's exactly what it is. They'll test and balance as best they can before release, but they won't get it right every time. Widespread use will show one way or the other if they had the right values and if proves they didn't, they now have the means to adjust it in a far far far more efficient manor.

"Beta test" at times has become synonymous with negative connotations, but I don't think that's the case here, if only because we'll see corrections at a much faster rate than before.

[rudyvalentine]

Fantasy Flight just posted this article today explaining some of the movement changes in 2.0.

[Porkins]

I don't understand how they are doing upgrades. So suppose I have a lot of 1.0 Rebel ships and I buy the conversion kit for Rebels. This gives me a bunch of maneuver dials. Does it also give me the upgrade cards for the ships that are not yet released in 2.0? I'm assuming not since they are probably not balanced and tested. So now I need to buy those ships in 2.0 when they are released to get the upgrade cards anyway??

[Hahma]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/e...onversion-kit/

[NecroBlade]

Individual 2.0 ship packs for ships that are in the conversion kits should not have cards that are not also in the conversion kit, I don't believe. So the X-Wing pack, for example, will have only cards that are in the Rebel conversion kit, since the Rebel conversion kit includes X-Wings.

The only other thing you need to buy is the Core, since it will include cards that are not in the conversion kits, and you'll need the damage deck (and rules and lined templates). Pre-ordering the Core through FFG also gets you a second, sweet alt-art damage deck.

Any new ships may of course have new cards.

[Deroche]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

@Deroche, you should put that in a podcast or something.

I wasn't going to respond to this, but what the heck:

http://acrossthesaga.com/stayontarget/episodes/

The podcast to which NecroBlade refers.

(X-Wing has been where most of my energies have been directed these past couple of years, and my Heroscape play has suffered greatly for it)