Justice League Design *Brainstorming*

[IAmBatman]

Hmm, had another revolutionary thought that allows true, inclusive Justice League synergy in just one design instead of several. It would require a new type of design (but one that was discussed way, way, way back when and I actually opposed at the time, but think might just fit the bill here and would certainly be very different than the Avengers). It would only require a single card, that card would probably have a low cost, that card would allow you to put pretty much anyone you wanted into the Justice League, but would reward you more the more you included thematic members, and that card would probably be very hard to cost as point limits got variable (that's the one major drawback I can think of so far, and where I need the most help!).

Here it is: A draftable team card (shout out to Balantai and GreyOwl! ). Rather than creating new versions of each of these stand alone heroes, take what we have and give people a reason to draft them together by creating a Justice League Team Card that has a point value to allow you to draft it in your army, then contains this special text (just sample text right now):

• If you control Cyborg, at the start of the game, before placing Order Markers, you place one Glyph of Boom Tube in any empty space in your startzone, power side up.
• If you control Superman and at least one numbered Order Marker is revealed on his Army Card, all figures you control add one to their defense for the remainder of the round.
• If you control Wonder Woman and at least one numbered Order Marker is revealed on her Army Card, all figures you control add one to their attack for the remainder of the round.
• If you control Batman, once per round you may reveal the “X” Order Marker on his card and rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on any Army Cards you control.
• If you control Flash and at least one numbered Order Marker is revealed on his Army Card, all figures you control move one additional space for the remainder of the round.
• If you control Green Lantern and at least one numbered Order Marker is revealed on his Army Card, all figures you control with a Range Number of 4 or higher add one to their range for the remainder of the round.
• If you control Martian Manhunter and at least one numbered Order Marker is revealed on his Army Card, an opponent may not take temporary or permanent control of any of your figures for the remainder of the round.
• If you control Aquaman and at least one numbered Order Marker is revealed on his Army Card, add 1 to any 20-sided die roll for the remainder of the round.

[Yodaking]

Interesting idea Sock. Just like how Lady Shiva can recruit any Vigilante to become an Assassin for one game, you could have a couple of JL recruiters that could each recruit a different set of classes to the JL for a single game instead of handing out markers to just anyone. This of course brings us back close to where we started at though in trying to determine which classes make the cut and which ones are left out. I also think you would end up with several 4 power cards if one of the powers is just a recruitment one.

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Alright just so we have it all in one post. These are all the currently released JL related army cards we have.

Batman/Bruse Wayne I (200) - Vigilante & Driven
Batman/Bruce Wayne II (250) - Vigilante & Driven
Martian Manhunter (300) - Telepath & Contemplative
Cyborg (200) - Titan & Brilliant
Superman I (400) - Champion & Valiant
Superman II (450) - Champion & Valiant
Wonder Woman (300) - Champion & Determined
Flash (Barry Allen) (250) - Scientist & Bold
Green Lantern (Hal Jordon) (350) - Officer & Fearless
Aquaman (230) - King & Valiant
Aquaman II (330) - Warrior & Determined
Green Arrow/Oliver Queen (150) - Archer & Precise
Black Canary (190)- Vigilante & Determined
Hawkman (225) - Warrior & Fearless
Hawkgirl (225) - Warrior & Fierce
Atom (50) - Scientist & Daring
Shazam (360) - Champion & Righteous
Booster Gold (290) - Champion & Determined
Vixen (150) - Warrior & Loyal
Green Lantern/John Stewart (340) - Officer & Determined
Green Lantern/Kyle Rayner (300) - Officer & Creative
Green Lantern/Guy Gardner (320) - Officer & Brash
Red Arrow (150) - Archer & Brash
Flash/Wally West (280) - Champion & Tricky
Firestorm - Crimefighter/Scientist & ?/Brilliant
Batman/Dick Grayson - Vigilante & Determined
Huntress (170) - Vigilante & Ruthless
Nightwing/Dick Grayson - Titan & Daring
Robin/Dick Grayson - Sidekick & Daring
Batgirl/Cassandra Cain (130) - Sidekick & Disciplined
Blue Beetle/Ted Kord (160) - Crime Fighter & Disciplined
Steel (260) - Engineer & Valiant
Oracle/Barbra Gordon (110) - Strategist & Brilliant
Red Tornado (300) - Protector & Benevolent
Zatanna (240) - Magician & Tricky
Doctor Fate (290) - Mystic & Resolute
Plastic Man (145) - Adventurer & Quirky
Supergirl (320) - Refugee & Reckless
Etrigan (320) - Prince & Wild
Obsidian (280) - Recluse & Brooding
Ice (170) - Princess & Guileless
Fire (150) - Celebrity & Impulsive

(Only counting cards with the same secret identity once.)
8 different classes: (5 Champions, 4 Officers, 4 Warriors, 3 Scientists, 3 Vigilantes, 2 Archers, 2 Titans, & 2 Sidekicks)

7 different personalities: (6 Determined, 4 Valiant, 3 Brilliant, 2 Fearless, 2 Daring, 2 Brash, 2 Disciplined)

Titan & Sidekick already have the Teen Titan synergy so I'd rather not include those classes. That leaves 6 classes to be recruited covering 21 JL members + all the cards that were not part of the JL but have one of those 5 classes.

JLA RECRUITMENT
At the start of the game, you may choose up to two Unique _______ or ______ Heroes you control. The chosen figure's class are Justice Leaguer instead of what is on its card.

MM recruits: Officers(4) & Vigilantes(3) = 7
Cyborg recruits: Scientists(3) & Warriors(4) = 7
Zatanna(?) recruits: Champions(5) & Archers(2) = 7

So in order to have both Black Canary & Green Arrow in the same JL team, you would have to start out with MM & Zatanna, then recruit the two of them. You would then still be able to add say a Green Lantern and Superman for a 6 figure JL team that all had the class of Justice Leaguer. MM & Zatanna would then have some Justice Leaguer synergy powers.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Tornado

How about DO JL Watchtower that lists every member of the JL and gives them the class of Justice League. Then you have all the members covered instantly. Have MMII or maybe Mr. Terrific II start with the Watchtower or possibly make it draftable.
After that you simply have to create whatever synergy you want the Justice League to have with future designs without having to recreate every card that has been in the JL.

Some questions that come to mind with that approach:

How exactly would that work with a Destructible Object?
How would you fit all of that on a card?
What kind of synergies would be offered by only 1-2 cards calling to Justice Leaguers?
How would this separate it from other synergies?

[Tornado]

Great minds....

Woah, a lot of action.

To answer your questions A_S, I would just go with Bats' idea.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Great minds....

Woah, a lot of action.

To answer your questions A_S, I would just go with Bats' idea.

I know, right! Lots of different ideas pouring in all at once.

[Arkham]

@Bats

Nice idea. I was actually going to suggest something similar, but hadn't fleshed it out in my mind on how exactly it'd work. The idea was essentially to have a new mechanic introduced, a list of heroes that are a part of the team, and a power added to their card if they are drafted with the Justice League. So it's nice to see it more fleshed out.

I can get behind something like this. It's different. It adds synergy between the members. It's thematic to the characters. It gives reason to draft them together etc. It also prevents a bunch of new version being necessary, and instead just requires discussion and balancing, with playtesting to ensure it works.

@Yoda

If people are willing to go this route, that's not a bad idea either.

[Tornado]

Somewhere from the early days there is a lengthy discussion on team cards.
It may be in 'The thread that started it all'.
Anyways it is a great read and something I think any group of designers should check out.
Balantai is going to love this. GreyOwl too, I mean whoo, whoo.

[IAmBatman]

I think the biggest question I'd have for my idea is whether it could be balanced just with one overall cost (considering that in really high point games you could get all of those synergies, but in most games you could not) or if it would require you to pay points separately for each additional power (which would get more complex and a bit messier).

I'm hoping the fact that almost every power is tied into Order Markers and that the most desirable ones (attack, defense, etc.) will drive the cost the most will help limit variation between the high point armies and the lower point armies, but I'm hoping some more competitive players (dok?) can speak to that!

[Tornado]

Perhaps the cost could be scaled depending on the number of figures chosen that get synergy.

[IAmBatman]

I can definitely see the appeal of Yodaking's approach. The one downside is that you're spending so much card text just to get everyone into the army together. Then you still have to add the synergies themselves to make doing so worthwhile. This potentially leaves very little room on the lynchpin cards to express their individuality with.

One thing I like about the version I put up (if we can figure out the tricky costing aspect) is that it very much shows that this is a collection of individuals (thus any specific individual that joins brings their own personality) but they work better as a team. To me, that's the Justice League. And the idea that the team itself is such an iconic thing to the public that it gets its own card (it's a concept, almost a hero in and of itself) represents that well also, IMO.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Perhaps the cost could be scaled depending on the number of figures chosen that get synergy.

I think that's definitely one approach worth considering. Figuring out the best approach might require some initial playtesting, but that's probably looking too far ahead at this point. I'm hoping some of our competitive guys can theoryscape on how big of a swing of value we're likely to see between an all-inclusive Army and smaller, 800-1,000ish point builds.

[Arkham]

I still think MM II is worthy of a new version, and I think taking this team card idea and having it implemented with him, is the ultimate way to go.

Purely for example, here's how it could go down:

JUSTICE LEAGUE FOUNDER
At the start of the game, you may place the Glyph of Justice League on this card. For the remainder of the game, you receive the benefits of the glyph. Destroy this glyph and remove it from the game.

You could build it into Martian Manhunter's cost. You're still paying for each individual character's cost, so I don't quite know if it's really necessary to cost the Team Up as it's own design. It's just making everything stronger by teaming them up, but you'd have to pay for the leader, in this case Martian Manhunter, just as you would normally for Cap, Mister Fantastic, Prof. X etc. Who all have their synergy bonuses figured into their cost.