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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #49  
Old March 22nd, 2022, 03:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

Energy Clash does refer to the "Beam Struggle special power", so it's something we'd need to remember to rename there if these aren't special powers.

I'm cool whichever way we rule it, though I think it makes more sense to just consider these special powers since these are draftable and generally structured like Army Cards. But ultimately, it's a name and doesn't matter too much.
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  #50  
Old March 22nd, 2022, 03:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I think what I'm realizing here is that the Story Card rules were not 100% cornercased before they went out and that's already causing issues. (Although tbf, not feeling particularly guilty about that. ) I think in the future, when we add a new addition like Story Cards or VDOs, it would be smart to keep them in-sanctum until we have 2-3 of them designed under the new ruleset and ready to release.
This just proves that we should not send rules out without running them through the full design process.
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  #51  
Old March 22nd, 2022, 03:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

We also shouldn't release new types of cards without rules to go with them.
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  #52  
Old March 22nd, 2022, 04:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

Seems like the things on the back of the Story Cards that have names and look exactly like special powers should be special powers. Having "rules" that are under the control of one person and such doesn't make any sense.


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  #53  
Old March 29th, 2022, 07:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

Toyhandle/Splash tests:

version tested:
Spoiler Alert!


Quote:
Originally Posted by toyhandle
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: BEAM STRUGGLE STORY CARD

Army Test
Map: Grund’s Grave
Units: 
Beam Struggle Story Card, Goku (Base), Goku (SS), Gohan, Black Lightning (1000)
Godzilla
Results:
Godzilla had a massive Atomic Breath, which destroyed Goku and Goan both in R2T1, and I struggled to wound Godzilla during this very short game. Goku took the opportunity to try the beam struggle, which resulted in him losing, and taking 2 wounds. Would have been safer just to attack with Kamehameha, as there is no chance of Goku taking wounds from his attack, and you could do just as many, or more, wounds by attacking.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Mountain Spring
Units:
Beam Struggle Story Card, Goku (Base), Goku (SS), Gohan, Iceman (AOA)
Cyclops (Utopian), Blob, Colossus (AoA), Archangel, Pyro
Results:
Not a great map for Cyclops and his team. A literal uphill battle. Sadly, I missed my best chances to use the Beam Struggle defensively, against Cyclops R3T1, or against Pyro. When I did activate it instead of attacking, I lost and took only 1 wound.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:

I lost the beam struggle in both games, and then in a third out-of-context test roll off. Sadly, I didn’t think to use it at the most strategically opportune moment, when Cyclops blasted Goku R3T1, or against Pyro. Could have been used to destroy Cyclops, and prevent some wounds on Goku, who instead, took the attack, and 3 wounds in the process, dying R3T2, giving the rest of the round to Splash.

I sometimes struggle to remember off the battlefield things like Skull Invaders, Stan Lee, and such, so I’m not surprised I forgot. 

I would try testing it at +4, as +2 didn’t seem a big enough advantage. Maybe different +#’s when used offensively or defensively?

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:

Thematically, a really cool way to potentially save a high value figure you control who is on their last legs. Especially in situations where all of your Order Markers are on Base Goku, and dying early in the round would mean leaving SS Goku out on the battlefield, unable to take turns. However, a lot of units won’t be able to trigger its defensive use, such as Game 1, when Goku fought Godzilla. Generally, not something you’d want to use instead of attacking, unless the opponent has some very difficult to bypass defense.

SPLASH’s thoughts:

Right now I'm not sure beam struggle is worth drafting at all, let alone for 50 points, it backfired on toy both games and a third time just us testing it alone. The concept is fun, but the bonus of 2 doesn't do enough to help your chances enough and having it benefit you more for no concrete reason other than you drafted it would feel weird thematically. It's also odd that right now more than anything you would want to draft it with weaker offensive heroes like Gohan.

I think a way for it to be worth it is to either add the base attack stat to your roll to reflect the stronger heroes having the stronger beams, or perhaps have the enemy subtract the number of wounds from the defending figure on each roll. Possibly both, add attack for if you are using it on your attack turn, or subtract enemy wounds if you use it defensively.
Or the bonus could just be when you use it one way or the other, because it pays out a lot less to initiate the beam struggle when you could just be landing a huge attack.

I like the Challenger and Kaiju and on either turn bits, I just think it just needs a bit more finesse in there to make it worth drafting and feel less out of place in the middle of a game.
Maybe it could have a set moment, beginning/end of a round, the first time this character attacks/defends, something to have a helpful and more firm time to use it, because it can be forgotten or more often less useful.

Last edited by Arch-vile; March 30th, 2022 at 09:30 AM.
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  #54  
Old March 29th, 2022, 08:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

I could see doing something like both players adding their figure's Attack Value to their roll if we wanted to push using it with Goku and such more.

Wouldn't want to do a one sided boost though since at that point the roll off thing would be basically pointless to even do.


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  #55  
Old March 29th, 2022, 11:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

I talked with Splash and Toy for a bit to get a few ideas. One idea was to do the attack boost idea, to make sure the big guns like Goku would use it:

Quote:
BEAM STRUGGLE
Each player must roll the 20-sided die for the chosen figure they control, adding their figure's Attack number to the roll. You also add 2 to your roll. Move the Energy Clash Marker one space towards whichever player rolled lower, then each each player rolls again. When the Energy Clash Marker is placed on an End space of the Energy Clash Card, the player with the Energy Clash Marker furthest from them rolls 4 unblockable attack dice against the other player's figure, and the attacking figure’s turn ends immediately.
But having the boost be too one-sided and having so many boosts kinda makes it more of a pain to calculate each roll. So instead of that, why not simply change the Beam Struggle trigger to be something that would benefit you?

Quote:
ENERGY CLASH
Once per game, when a non-adjacent enemy figure would inflict one or more wounds on a Hero you control that is a Challenger or Kaiju, you may ignore those wounds, choose those two figures, and use the Beam Struggle special power.
This cements the beam struggle as a purely defensive thing to save your butt, which is pretty true to how the heroes use it in DBZ. And it takes a little sting out of losing the beam struggle, because you were going to get hit anyway.
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  #56  
Old March 30th, 2022, 08:18 AM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

Seems reasonable.

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  #57  
Old March 30th, 2022, 09:22 AM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

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  #58  
Old March 30th, 2022, 09:29 AM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

I like that.
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  #59  
Old March 30th, 2022, 09:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

Super, thanks all. I updated the SP with that change to Energy Clash.

I'll look for at least one more public tester here, and probably run some more games of my own as well to help narrow down the cost.
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  #60  
Old April 3rd, 2022, 12:43 AM
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Re: The Book of Beam Struggle Story (public testing)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: BEAM STRUGGLE STORY CARD
VERSION TESTED
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test
Map: SACRED SHRINE
Units: Godzilla (1000), Beam Struggle (50), Man-bat Assassins (150) (1200) vs Biollante (1000), Wiccan (200)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________
Army Test
Map: SACRED SHRINE
Units: Battle Beast (400), Beam Struggle (50), Spider-man (Avengers) (280), Oracle (110), Mister Terrific (Michael Holt) (160) (1000) vs Professor X (220), Angel (90), Iceman (150), Jean Grey (180), Cyclops (190) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________
UNIT SUMMARY: Despite the domination of the X-Men (and their dice) in the second game, the Beam Struggle felt up to its worth. It downright swung the first game. It’s a fun card. The theme really pops and it’s only not useful if your Challenger or Kaiju never takes a wound from a ranged attack, which seems unlikely. I really dig this one.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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