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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.

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  #1  
Old March 18th, 2024, 12:35 PM
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Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!


Well met!

Ages of Heroscape, When did C3V jump the shark?, and HeroScape is coming back!, exist in separate forums, but have begun to overlap. It is difficult to discuss any one of Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, or Renegade 'Scape without reference to the others and their shared historical context - and ours. For instance, The New York City Gang Of Four has been in existence since roughly 2008, since that is the date the last of us joined the site. We have a shared history of 'Scaping, and reaction to all that has transpired herein. Other individuals and groups have been 'Scaping longer, of course, while others are just starting out. Where we are now, where we are going, and where we wish to go, over all, is the subject of this thread.

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  #2  
Old March 18th, 2024, 01:24 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

I dont think anyone is going to abandon what they are already playing with and none of the customs projects have given notice that they are shutting down.

I assume people are just going to add more heroscape to their table. Obviously the store championships and stuff cant feature customs but the chatter seems to indicate that events will still run for VC inclusive tournaments. Even OHS is giving it a go for this latest season to mix them all together. I dont think any drastic changes are happening, just more welcome additions. The majority of people dont play in tournaments at this moment anyways, so I think people will on the whole just continue to get stuff that interests them.

My expectation is that will place official product first, followed by interesting customs. I dont think anyone that likes customs is going to suddenly quit on them.
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Old March 18th, 2024, 01:30 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

I do wonder if VC interest will wain. For a long time it was the only place for new scape you could feel confident would slot into your collection. Now you can't be sure since AoA units could break VC units. Also if you want more scape, you can buy it at the store instead of looking for the mons online and printing a card.


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  #4  
Old March 18th, 2024, 02:10 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

I'm curious to see how official tournaments will pan out, since fan-organized tournaments have been the standard for nearly 20 years. Will they co-exist? Will they become bureaucratized and require TDs to be licensed or purchase license in order to host tournaments? Will official tournaments live a short life because of the already-established culture of unofficial tournaments?

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  #5  
Old March 18th, 2024, 02:45 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I do wonder if VC interest will wain. For a long time it was the only place for new scape you could feel confident would slot into your collection. Now you can't be sure since AoA units could break VC units. Also if you want more scape, you can buy it at the store instead of looking for the [minis] online and printing a card.
From what I've been seeing, confidence that AoA "would slot into your collection" is not unanimous. Backstory, adherence or contribution to Canon, quality of sculpts or cards, among other things, appear to be sub-par compared to all that has come before - and that certainly includes C3V/SoV. What does it say about the whole way things are being done, how much respect Renegade has for what has gone before, that you could say "you can't be sure since AoA units could break VC units." Who's to say for certain that they won't break any Classic units?

Given the popularity and convenience of online shopping, the cheapness of older minis relative to new ones, and the prevalent acceptance of reasonable proxies (even in many tournaments), why would going to the store be the way to go?

Of course, I personally know nothing about any of this. My perspective is clearly fringe ("you be you"). Contrary to what has been said concerning me, I do not wish Renegade to fail. Rather, I hope they succeed and, as an aspect of that success, they evolve in a positive manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Scaper94 View Post
I'm curious to see how official tournaments will pan out, since fan-organized tournaments have been the standard for nearly 20 years. Will they co-exist? Will they become bureaucratized and require TDs to be licensed or purchase license in order to host tournaments? Will official tournaments live a short life because of the already-established culture of unofficial tournaments?
If Islandscape (local tournament) could co-exist with GenCon (Official Championship), why not whatever Renegade does with everything that is going on now? Especially since so many in the Community accept and desire C3V/SoV to be included in tournaments?

Finally, a lot of this speculation is so premature. And, in reality, affects most of those on this site not much.
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  #6  
Old March 19th, 2024, 07:25 AM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

My own main policies since Heroscape went out of print, besides our usual rotating Game Masters providing monthly custom scenarios here at the New York City Gang of Four's Game Palace, mostly on larger multiplayer maps, has been:

1. To make all VC cards available for our games, even with a heavy use of proxies. This is paired with four members' collections including all of Classic Scape, custom terrain such as 24 hex pieces of Desert and Snow terrain, and etc.

2. To use my extensive library of Superheroes and Villains, after my retirement and The Great Card Hunt, snatching many independent customs from later disappearance with hard copies in my file boxes and binder catalogue of them all. And these include my favorites from C3G (1.0) as well as many of our own customs.

3. To continue to support our own playtesting efforts, even as we have become generally less personally involved with the VC and C3G new outputs. The exception is our thread host, who continues to submit new characters to SOV after the acceptance of one.

4. To welcome the Haslab/Renegade cards and make them available to our games as well. I've been the person most supportive of this in printing out all the cards and providing proxy figures, mostly through Anitar's cards. However, the production strategy of Renegade seems to ignore the wants of us older Scapers, and none of us are buying in yet. Right now I'm feeling somewhat isolated by their choices to not make the figures available without the old terrain, which we don't need at all and don't wish to pay for.

5. We remain inclusive of everything possible to bring to the table in our own Scape Universe for our custom scenarios, which remain creative and vital in our own playing experience, which has continued in the possibilities inherent since Heroscape first came out, even before our group was formed.

Such are the main parameters of our own little corner of the Heroscape experience, which I wish to continue to encourage and continue in our future.

Last edited by chas; March 24th, 2024 at 01:08 AM.
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  #7  
Old March 23rd, 2024, 09:30 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

I'm probably going to use this as a good off-ramp for collecting. Might pick up new VC if it looks really cool. But since VC can't promise to fit with a complete canon (renegade is not necessarily going to ensure that they aren't broken with a new VC design), VC will no longer be able to promise a perfect fit with the rest of the 'scape canon (which they've done an incredible job of so far)
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Old March 24th, 2024, 02:06 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

Just gotta have all tournaments set up so they all run classic without D&D only, classic with D&D only, classic with D&D and C3V/SOV only, classic with D&D and AoA only, classic with D&D and AoA and C3V/SOV, classic with AoA only and AoA only formats all at once.....and also have all those formats with and without delta points being used.

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Old March 24th, 2024, 09:05 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

The ACES group is checking to see if AOA nerfs any VC units. So far I believe none have been nerfed.
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Old March 25th, 2024, 01:00 AM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chas View Post
The ACES group is checking to see if AOA nerfs any VC units. So far I believe none have been nerfed.
Yes, to this point everything's fine. I just don't see C3V filling nearly the same role in the community with an open canon. The whole philosophy seemed to be predicated on a closed canon of official units so that VC always knew what they were working with. SoV is still a cool way to recognize the best community customs, but it'd be more like a Halls of Valhalla thing now.

I mean, maybe we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (a broken VC/ Renegade interaction). For now, everything's all good. But who knows how long that'll last
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  #11  
Old March 25th, 2024, 09:22 AM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

I love the SoV and C3V, but the question of economics also starts playing into it. Looking at Pathfinder and D&D pre painted packs, the priced become eye watering. I even priced out some unpainted bones minis and to pick up 9 figures you could be looking at 27-45 bucks for 3 squads.

If I'm dropping money into AoA, hard to justify the extra work, time and money for even more scape. I mean I will pick up key and interesting units, but I doubt my common pool will expand. I can see more proxy in the future as the KoW pull double duty as blackgaard.


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Old March 25th, 2024, 12:04 PM
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Re: Classic, C3V/SoV, Haslab, Renegade, Oh My!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Contrary to what has been said concerning me, I do not wish Renegade to fail. Rather, I hope they succeed and, as an aspect of that success, they evolve in a positive manner.
Not to cherry pick one small section of your reply, but in order for Renegade to succeed, they have to want to succeed. I'm trying to remain positive and look forward to all the AoA content being officially released, but there are signs from their product and PR that have me concerned.

I know a lot of the team works remotely, all across the US. Maybe that contributes to a seeming lack of coordination, or maybe I'm just overreacting. Either way, we have Heroscape for the next two years, and that's in of itself a great thing.
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