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Architects of the Realms of Valhalla Discussion and presentation of the maps approved by the ARV.


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  #241  
Old October 31st, 2018, 12:59 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

I want to playtest this map again, as my main concern was glyph placement and the effect that had on gameplay. But I'm not 100% convinced it's still right. I think it's a little weird to have 2 power and then 1 treasure on the outside. I wonder if you just did 3 power glyphs across the middle? If that were the case though, I think I'd also like to see the edge power glyphs come in. I think the ice [power] glyph could come in 1 hex to allow opponents to surround that location and still get height on it...and I think the swamp side glyph would be better suited to come down into the center of the low ground swamp water. The reason for that would be because it's too tucked away in that back corner, which could make it easier for the army controlling it to keep people from attacking it...and it also might be tucked far enough away that it's more difficult to take along the natural path of a developing army and conflict. Down in the swamp water, it's a much more natural position to take along the way to attack an enemy or develop through the map. I think centralizing those glyphs a little more and making them all power glyphs would help to create a conflict that is more balanced throughout and used the entirety of the map.

@BiggaBullfrog @TREX @Nomad @Robber thoughts on this? do you see what I see?
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  #242  
Old October 31st, 2018, 11:50 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

I tend to play with all three glyphs as power glyphs--it is listed as an optional configuration in the map parameters.

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  #243  
Old October 31st, 2018, 07:20 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
I want to playtest this map again, as my main concern was glyph placement and the effect that had on gameplay. But I'm not 100% convinced it's still right. I think it's a little weird to have 2 power and then 1 treasure on the outside. I wonder if you just did 3 power glyphs across the middle? If that were the case though, I think I'd also like to see the edge power glyphs come in. I think the ice [power] glyph could come in 1 hex to allow opponents to surround that location and still get height on it...and I think the swamp side glyph would be better suited to come down into the center of the low ground swamp water. The reason for that would be because it's too tucked away in that back corner, which could make it easier for the army controlling it to keep people from attacking it...and it also might be tucked far enough away that it's more difficult to take along the natural path of a developing army and conflict. Down in the swamp water, it's a much more natural position to take along the way to attack an enemy or develop through the map. I think centralizing those glyphs a little more and making them all power glyphs would help to create a conflict that is more balanced throughout and used the entirety of the map.

@BiggaBullfrog @TREX @Nomad @Robber thoughts on this? do you see what I see?
I can see what you're saying, but at the same time, moving the glyphs in like that will make them even more exposed, which plays more into my concern on the map that the glyphs are super vulnerable, especially to ranged figures. Right now a ranged army doesn't have to go far from its start zone to control Wannok, and if the glyphs move closer together then that's less real estate they have to cover to shoot stuff. Not that keeping it as-is seems perfect either, but I think there's a big tradeoff in how it plays either way. I didn't test this map the first time around, so I'll rely on you and TREX for the experienced perspective, this is just me theoryscaping.

For Treasure v Power glyph, I'm not concerned either way. T Glyphs are more fun, and I think there will be more action in that corner anyway because the snow is the strongest high ground in that area, so making it a power glyph seems redundant to me with two P glyphs already on the map, but I don't think it would swing a vote either way (unless it was turned into a pre-determined glyph -- that matters a bit more).
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  #244  
Old November 4th, 2018, 03:26 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

I know @Robber and @Nomad have kinda been on a hiatus lately but I think I'd still like to see their opinion/feedback/votes on it before I make my vote. I'm not all-in just yet with the current version. I may be, but I want another opinion or two from them.
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  #245  
Old November 5th, 2018, 12:05 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Jandar's Summoning Circle: by @Flash_19


The first thing noticeable about this map is the tons of height in the middle. You know you're going to have to scramble to come out on top (see what I did there?), which can be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it encourages aggressive play rather than finding an area to camp near your start zone. On the other, if one player gets established on height dislodging them can be a headache-inducing task. So, in order to test the overall tournament readiness of this map, we've got to look at how it keeps one army from steamrolling once they get a hold of the top of the hill.

First off, the LoS blocking columns and ruins are used well on the map. Figures can prepare to attack the high ground by utilizing the cover and getting in position to rush the top. The glyphs are also well-covered by blockers, meaning that even if one player has the top area, the other can still contest the glyphs. If the player on top moves to shoot the glyph areas, that usually opens them up to counterattack for the top.

The wide start zones also encourage wide use of the map. It's harder to steamroll a whole army up to the top through one route. Instead, often players feel encouraged to utilize the different paths. The road helps with this, particularly by boosting the lateral movement across the map. It can be used to rush height or intercept incoming troops. The size of the map, and subsequent movement required to make it to the top, also helps to prevent an army from steamrolling by making players invest a lot of actions into getting up there with enough figures to hold it. Rushing the high ground with only a figure figures doesn't give enough of a presence to hold it against a stronger attack, so a balance of speed and army presence needs to be maintained.

There are still plenty of things to nitpick about the map. A lot of terrain is required for it, and the map doesn't utilize all of the available features, noticeably the shadow spaces available with the Dungeon set. This is a thematic choice, but it does seem like a missed opportunity for further balance. It's also a very leveled map -- it always feels like an uphill fight as you climb terrain, which isn't my favorite map feature, though others are okay with it. I also felt that it would benefit greatly from fixed glyphs to help offset the high ground. Wannok, Dagmar, and Valda are great when they show up, but if you end up with a Lodin on the map, it's not going to help very much. Overall, though, I feel it's a strong enough map to make it onto tournament tables, despite my personal nitpicks.

I vote to induct Jandar's Summoning Circle into the ARV stuffy stuff.
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  #246  
Old November 9th, 2018, 09:13 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Sorry for being gone for so long . . .

I know these maps have been approved for play-testing, but I figured I would give my two cents as well:

Valledon Fortress - I voted for the initial version of this map with some reservations and I'm eager to see if those reservations might be resolved. to review.

Ruined City - I had already put in a few play tests on the original version. I will tweak the map and continue. to review.

Forgotten Forest Road - I kind of liked this map when it first came up, but felt Gerda was too strong on the road. I like Marr Highway, so narrower maps don't bother me - it just adds a different flavor causing different tactics. to review.

Just some feedback:

RE: Swamp Fire - The original for this map came in before my time as judge . . . Looking at the current build, I get really worried about a map where the central high ground can hit both start zones and both glyphs. Quick ranged figures and Zelrig would love this map.

And one map that has not had a determination for play-testing:

Halcyon - Although the original came up before my time as an ARV judge, I did put it into tournament play and got a few side games in as well. I did not think the map was tournament worthy. We were all frustrated that the pairs of single rock/glaciers toppled numerous times during games. We also noticed that melee armies had a tough go of it. The only changes on this map are the glyphs and placement of Wannock. I do like that Wannock was moved (the ice side of the map saw little play). I will need to be convinced by other judges who spent valuable time reviewing this map initially that the changes are enough to warrant another round of play-tests. For now, I will abstain. I am prepared to render a verdict on play-testing if others abstain as well.

I hope I didn't miss anything . . . let me know if I did.
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  #247  
Old November 10th, 2018, 02:30 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Jandar's Summoning Circle: by @Flash_19


The first thing noticeable about this map is the tons of height in the middle. You know you're going to have to scramble to come out on top (see what I did there?), which can be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it encourages aggressive play rather than finding an area to camp near your start zone. On the other, if one player gets established on height dislodging them can be a headache-inducing task. So, in order to test the overall tournament readiness of this map, we've got to look at how it keeps one army from steamrolling once they get a hold of the top of the hill.

First off, the LoS blocking columns and ruins are used well on the map. Figures can prepare to attack the high ground by utilizing the cover and getting in position to rush the top. The glyphs are also well-covered by blockers, meaning that even if one player has the top area, the other can still contest the glyphs. If the player on top moves to shoot the glyph areas, that usually opens them up to counterattack for the top.

The wide start zones also encourage wide use of the map. It's harder to steamroll a whole army up to the top through one route. Instead, often players feel encouraged to utilize the different paths. The road helps with this, particularly by boosting the lateral movement across the map. It can be used to rush height or intercept incoming troops. The size of the map, and subsequent movement required to make it to the top, also helps to prevent an army from steamrolling by making players invest a lot of actions into getting up there with enough figures to hold it. Rushing the high ground with only a figure figures doesn't give enough of a presence to hold it against a stronger attack, so a balance of speed and army presence needs to be maintained.

There are still plenty of things to nitpick about the map. A lot of terrain is required for it, and the map doesn't utilize all of the available features, noticeably the shadow spaces available with the Dungeon set. This is a thematic choice, but it does seem like a missed opportunity for further balance. It's also a very leveled map -- it always feels like an uphill fight as you climb terrain, which isn't my favorite map feature, though others are okay with it. I also felt that it would benefit greatly from fixed glyphs to help offset the high ground. Wannok, Dagmar, and Valda are great when they show up, but if you end up with a Lodin on the map, it's not going to help very much. Overall, though, I feel it's a strong enough map to make it onto tournament tables, despite my personal nitpicks.

I vote to induct Jandar's Summoning Circle into the ARV stuffy stuff.
It has been long time coming for my review on this map. I was getting ready to start writing and noticed that biggas review not only stated my thoughts on the map but went above and beyond. I wont reiterate all of the high and low points of the map to save some time and instead get to testing more maps. Bottom line is that I feel like this map is a great addition to the ARV maps and vote to induct it into the ARV tournament worthy maps.
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  #248  
Old November 11th, 2018, 11:54 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Jandar's Summoning Circle by @Flash_19 has received enough votes, and has now been inducted into the ARV Tournament Maps.

It should also be noted that Flash_19 has managed to break the long-standing curse of the winners of the contests. As a winner of the Landmarks of Valhalla contest, his map is the first of our winners to officially be added as tournament worthy.

Last edited by Sir Heroscape; November 12th, 2018 at 12:36 AM.
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  #249  
Old November 12th, 2018, 09:30 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Jandar's Summoning Circle by @Flash_19 has received enough votes, and has now been inducted into the ARV Tournament Maps.
Yay! Congrats Flash!!

Quote:
It should also be noted that Flash_19 has managed to break the long-standing curse of the winners of the contests. As a winner of the Landmarks of Valhalla contest, his map is the first of our winners to officially be added as tournament worthy.
Meh, I'll believe it when the version that wins the poll gets passed.

But for realsies though, congrats!!
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  #250  
Old November 12th, 2018, 10:36 PM
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Re: Workshop Thread

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Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post

Meh, I'll believe it when the version that wins the poll gets passed.
Lol seriously though.
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  #251  
Old November 14th, 2018, 01:27 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Congrats to Flash_19 for Jandar's Summoning Circle. I was torn on my initial vote, but happy to see it pass through.

Regarding Ruined City: I am not sure my previous play tests will qualify in evaluating the map. The ground level and start zones have been reworked. I will rebuild it . . . stay tuned.
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  #252  
Old November 15th, 2018, 07:14 AM
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Re: Workshop Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
Congrats to Flash_19 for Jandar's Summoning Circle. I was torn on my initial vote, but happy to see it pass through.

Regarding Ruined City: I am not sure my previous play tests will qualify in evaluating the map. The ground level and start zones have been reworked. I will rebuild it . . . stay tuned.
I hope that the reworked areas make sense after having played with the old version. I felt some of the issues present in the old version were big enough problems to warrant a full resubmission.
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