#469
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Re: Diplomacy
What an exciting game! Touch and go at times, and in all honesty, I thought I was done for when I was fighting off Russia/Turkey/Italy at the beginning parts of the game.
EGS to come. ~Kinseth, Archduke of Austria. Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#470
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Re: Diplomacy
There were some very exciting points in this game, but I feel like as a greenhorn, I made some critical mistakes that may have taken away from the game.
Getting use to the tactical intricacies of the board (stalemate lines, defensive positions, etc.) is something that requires experience similar to chess. I think the curious end was somewhat affected by exhaustion. More to come in the EGS. wriggz - England. |
#471
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Re: Diplomacy
The game had its moments for me, but man, did I make some boneheaded decisions. I guess that's par for the course for my first game in ~20 years.
I also think I was really hurt by being slow to respond to messages, especially in the early game. The alliances kind of set sail without me and I had to scramble to find a place. I did get a bit more of the hang of the interface later on, but man, it's kind of clunky. |
#472
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Re: Diplomacy
Italy here. Was a very fun game from my perspective. I experienced the entire range of emotions during phase results. With plenty of fist pump and hang my head moments.
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#473
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Re: Diplomacy
Quote:
I was Germany. Congrats, Kinseth! |
#474
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Re: Diplomacy
In what will not come as a shock to those familiar with my communication style and speed, I was Turkey.
I will have plenty more to say (as I always seem to) but first off congratulations Kinseth. Second off, dang it Kinseth how did you win again, especially this game!?!? Ugh. I have so much frustration and yet admiration. Which I guess is why I keep playing this damn game. Nothing provides as much raw emotions as this one does. Like Kevin I had moments of elation and joy and plenty of cursing after some seasons. Whatever combination of luck/skill/dark arts that let Kinseth survive against Italy and myself during 1903 and 1904 was instrumental to the eventual result of this game and I can not but help be so frustrated by so many things this round. For what it’s worth I’m still totally ready and willing to play another. I’m convinced on some level I’m actually good at this game, but these three rounds have not gone well for me. Yet I keep telling myself and honestly beleiving a few minor things here and there and I’d be in a good spot. Perhaps I’m crazy or perhaps I just haven’t caught the breaks I need to. Ah well. Wriggz, I would agree that as England you made some errors with Germany down the stretch. I’ll detail them a bit more later, but the fact Germany and yourself failed to get armies in position to crack Moscow/Warsaw was kind of embarissing in hindsight. Had you bashed your way through there before Austria/Turkey/whomever could get there from the south I think you do sweep through the rest of the board with good moves. As you’ll see from my post game breakdown later, I started doing kind of crazy things in 1905 and 1906 because I was quite convinced of an England/Germany victory if Austria/Turkey/Italy didn’t start to do something differently. |
#475
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Re: Diplomacy
Oh, you're good at this game, Ranior. By which I mean, you appear to be a student of it, which is all most people ever really get to be. There are articles upon articles about this game, both about tactics and about diplomacy. You get better, over time, if you're paying attention.
You mention participating in another one, which I'd be glad to run. But let's wait a bit before seeing if there's enough interest. |
#476
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Re: Diplomacy
Quote:
Thanks. I partially am jesting anyhow--I've had plenty of success in the past. I have read many articles about the game and played dozens of times and slowly gotten better. I somewhat recently joined in a small tournament of about 25 players where we each played 3 simultaneous games and it looks like I will place somewhere in the top 5 on the back of 3 2-way draws. So I know I can have success. The trick apparently is how do I best Kinseth? I thought for sure Kevin and I had him dead to rights and yet Kinseth pulled some type of magic act in constantly blocking our every move. Then, as I'll get into later, I determined we couldn't afford to be slow as England/Germany would wipe the board I tried to trust him and he promptly stabbed me. A little while later I was sure he'd lose again as Italy/England/Germany had every reason to stay allied to prevent an Austrian win and he'd start losing centers and influence. Yet inexplicably to me that fell apart, essentially handing the game to an Austrian player I never would have thought would win after the position and events of 1903 roughly. And so it is with some odd combination of respect/reverence/confusion/frustration that I look upon Kinseth's game and wonder "how the hell?" He doesn't seem to have managed to keep any allies for more than a season or two all game, at several points he had every single one of his neighbors ready to take him out, and yet he not only persisted but freaking won? It goes against some of what I thought I knew about this dang game. |
#477
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Re: Diplomacy
I also want to give some kudos to
@Nukatha
. I understand you might not play again, but you were a real pleasure to work with in this game. Circumstances arose how they did and really played against you that first year, but I was impressed by how you were willing to work with me to ensure survival at the expense of ceding territories to me.
In addition, you also spent quite a bit of energy discussing the state of the board at all locations in an effort to get a better understanding of how the game was being played and bouncing ideas off of each other to stall E/G, especially after England's first stab on me (spring '04). We really worked hard after that. Hopefully with a clear head and fresh breath you will reconsider playing again, but totally understand if not. There's a lot of personal investment into this game and rarely the return on it. |
#478
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Re: Diplomacy
Quote:
How did I do it? There are many aspects to it, and sometimes it is just luck. But it is also trying to understand your opponent, get inside your opponents heads and figure out their motives for that season/game. Diplomacy is less about tactics/strategy and more about reading your opponents. For example, I didn't know KD was Italy for a while, but once I figured it out based on how he kept stabbing me with a fork, I realized he was only attacking me because he figured out Austria was Kinseth. I kept giving him every reason to trust me all game long, he kept trying to trust me but then would take an opportunity to attack me strictly because he knew who I was and was worried I would solo win. I don't always play for a solo victory, I do like solid 2 way draw alliance finishes. But I think the memories of last game were burned into his retina's and he had to defeat me. I say stabbing with a fork, because they were not quality stabs, they were stabs done more out of fear and less out of opportunity. I always approach the game trying to understand my opponent, what their motives are and how they are interacting with other players on the board. Let's go my line of thinking in Fall of 03. Russia - Gal/Urk/Sev Turkey - Rum/Bla/Con/Smy Italy - Ion/Ven/Adr Austria - Tyr/Tri/Ser/Bud/Gre/Bul Germany - Sil Gal Sil bounce was easy to see, so I could discount Gal and remove him from the line of thinking.(And ignore defending Vie) Based on Turkey needing Bul Back(And how obsessed he was about Bul thus far in the game), I was able to figure out he would throw everything at Bul. I didn't think Turkey had any motive of actually helping Russia prosper. So I could discard the idea that BLA was going to support a Russian unit to Rum. Russia would have only 2 vs Rum, and I had Bud and Ser that could bounce him at Rum, and let Bul be crushed. Had you guessed right(Instead of playing motives) and only went 2x at Bul and 3x at Rum, you would have taken both locations and I would have been doomed. It was understanding Turkey's motives that allowed me to figure out how you would play your moves.(Or I just got lucky, i'd like to think I figured it out though ) Just a little insight in how I try to read the board and players to make my moves. I like to think I approach the game like a QB who steps up to the line and looks at the defense and tries to figure out how they are going to move. This DB likes to jump routes, so I can give a pump fake to the flat and hit a deep ball to the wide out. Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#479
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Re: Diplomacy
I'll interject a comment here since some of my moves have been described as 'not quality' and I do bristle at the connotation. You seem to imply that a 'stab' to prevent long term negatives is not a good move because you don't know if those negatives will actually occur opposed to a 'stab of opportunity' (definition pending). I think the sun would have burned out before Austria allowed a 'stab of opportunity'. If that is the stance you are taking in regards to whether or not a stab is worthwhile, then we will have to just disagree on the matter.
And for my part, I was quite content with the results of my move to the Adriatic as it was a containment move (out of fear as you say). I was also happy with the opportunities that developed following my arrangement with England and Germany when my fleets changed course. That didn't work out because I performed poorly diplomatically, but the orders planned would have resolved very well. |
#480
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Re: Diplomacy
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Quote:
Anyways, you can take my insights for what they are, they are not meant to put you down or anyone down. I had a great time battling with you all game long Kevin, and even when we allied, we were still enemies. It was a true battle of wits, and you came close to coming out on top. Just like I think Germany/England both had opportunities to sweep the board had they made a couple of key moves early on.(as pointed out by @Ranior previously) Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
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