The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

On a sort of related note... I'm not excited about all the Medium Unique Fantasy heroes coming through SoV. Give me some Sci-Fi, some steampunk, some common (or unique!!!) squads, or some big ferocious beasties. But please no more stuff out of the D&D players handbook and it's accompanying splat books. Not for a while yet.

I agree, but I think that the overabundance of fantasy heroes is understandable. I'm sure that we're all aware of how difficult it is to find widely available miniatures that aren't from Pathfinder or Dungeons and Dragons, and things like AT-43 aren't around anymore to provide reliable sources of good minis.

Not too long ago, I finally found a widely available Samurai HeroClix miniature to use for a Unique Squad... and then 90% of the stock disappeared whilst I was looking for another suitable figure. At least with heroes, we only need to worry about one miniature's availability.

[Pumpkin_King]

Some Star Wars minis are fairly plentiful. It's kind of surprising no one's taken some Clone/Stormtroopers and make Omnicron Soulborgs out of them.

[Astroking112]

I seem to remember some talk a while ago about how Clone/Stormtroopers are too iconic to be reasonably used as a generic HeroScape figure, which I always assumed was the reason that they were avoided. I'll look around and see if I can find the thread that I'm thinking of.

EDIT: Found it in the Book of Zettian Infantry:

Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox

If you watched the Cartoons, these may be more Iconic to you...but they were rarely seen in the Movies (which most people have seen). In my humble opinion, these are not too iconic and are fine, because they are more from other venues than the movies. Now you will not see me entertain any notion of using regular Battle Droids,Clone Troopers or Stormtroopers...that would be so wrong.

[Pumpkin_King]

I wonder if that view is widely shared or has changed much since the ZI.

[Dad_Scaper]

Well, an intellect devourer is an iconic D&D monster. And LO showed us how to reimagine it as sci fi, right?

[Astroking112]

I can't say anything for how recognizable an intellect devourer is to D&D players, but I would never be able to guess what it was. Of course, I didn't even know that there was more than one planet in that universe until recently, so maybe I'm not the best metric for that.

The general gist that I got from reading the Book of Zettian Infantry way back when was to avoid using Stormtroopers (or anything else that iconic), because even people who know next to nothing about Star Wars would recognize them. If that's no longer the general consensus, then I'd certainly be interested in seeing more Jandar SoulBorgs be submitted (or claimed by C3V, if they find their own idea for them). The minis certainly seem to be available enough, and I like it when C3V/C3G/HoSS overlap on figures a little bit.

[Pumpkin_King]

DS, maybe this is for another thread, but - are the clone/stormtroopers too "iconic" still?

[Dad_Scaper]

It really is for another thread. When it comes up somewhere relevant, tag me and I'll have a look.

[Pumpkin_King]

Sure thing.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I can't help but feel like there's an unhealthy amount of pushback for synergy. I understand that a design must be quite good if synergy is going to make it through the SoV, but it feels like the moment synergy is brought up, there is an immediate disregard for the design.

...

I respect the experience, and knowledge that C3V/SoV have.

These two things kind of go hand-in-hand, actually. We have learned from our experiences just like everyone else does, and our thoughts on what is good and right has been refined over time. I don't think units like Deathcommander or Xao Lin would get far through the process nowadays. (Note: yes, was recently only recently, but he has been in the system for years.) Not that I consider those designs bad or anything, but I think as a group we've changed our opinions on designs like these.

Synergy is far from a no-no, and we still see designs even new in C3V that specifically target older units for boosting. That's not a bad thing, per se, but something that definitely needs to be kept in check over time. Like anything else, synergy is judged along with the whole unit. What synergies are provided, what do they do, and how well do they fit the unit, as well as whether or not the new synergies will be the right thing for the faction and for the game.

To add my 2 cents to the Einar Imperium discussion, I disagree that they need help. I have taken them to tournaments and done ok with them; a combination of Raelin and Kiova makes them Deathwalker-level tough. You need to be very careful with them, though, since you have so few units to work with. Their biggest problem, by far, is the metagame. Strong ranged squads will take down their cheerleaders from outside of the bubble of protection, and anything that deals wounds outside of attacks utterly wrecks them. They definitely do not need offensive help, and Kiova and Raelin already give them plenty of defensive help. Unfortunately for them the metagame will never be in their favor.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

DS, maybe this is for another thread, but - are the clone/stormtroopers too "iconic" still?

Honestly, as someone who's never even seen Star Wars that she can remember, enough cultural consciousness has come through that even I'd consider Stormtroopers distractingly iconic....

That being said, there are plenty of other figures from Star Wars that wouldn't feel too iconic to me, human and, possibly more interestingly, alien...

[Pumpkin_King]

Went and updated the Tomb Warden - this'll probably be the next version I playtest (hopefully) next Sunday. Made him uncommon, and I combined the two previous powers into one. Does the wording make sense? I also gave him Flanking, which seemed thematic, and re-using a power when it makes sense seems like a good idea.

Thanks very much for the previous feedback. He seemed good when I playtested the previous version a couple times, and I'm really hoping this version sharpens the unit.