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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #49  
Old June 29th, 2018, 12:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Making me wish I was a little farther on my Nemesis. Would be cool to have them in playtesting at the same time.
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  #50  
Old July 6th, 2018, 06:41 AM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Would this guy technically be able to be put in Nick's Drop Team? Not that I think that's a good strategy, but if you want to avoid that you may want to take some language from the Skrull Infiltrator.


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  #51  
Old July 6th, 2018, 11:22 AM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Nemesis (Tom Tresser)
Army Test 1
Map: Dry Season by Killometer (no glyphs)
Armies:
Nick Fury, Gorilla-Man, Mockingbird, Nemesis (Tom Tresser), 3x S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, 2x Skrull Infiltrators (1,000 points)
vs.
Nightwing, Starfire, Tempest, Raven, Changeling (1,000 points)


Spoiler Alert!



Not sure when exactly I'll manage to run test two, but I will!


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Last edited by Lazy Orang; July 6th, 2018 at 04:25 PM.
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  #52  
Old July 6th, 2018, 02:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Thanks for the test

Yeah, you can pick Nemesis for Fury’s drop team. I’m fine with that personally though as it’s a terrible idea to pick Tom 98% of the time and there’s nothing wrong with it thematically (it’s not like he’s a ghost that needs a fresh corpse to inhabit or something, just a regular dude with fancy masks). His card doesn’t really have the space to fit in anymore wording anyway.


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  #53  
Old July 9th, 2018, 01:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

- Theme Test - Inconclusive, but only because I don't know the character. He felt suitably evocative, though.
- Mirror Test - Pass
- Bonding Test - Pass
- His Agent synergies actually have oddly little use - he's getting a free turn with Deep Cover Infiltration, and he'll usually be dead before you can activate him again.
- Synergies Test - Pass - see above.
- Power Check - Pass - He can set off a scary, free surprise attack turn, but needs set-up and gets killed quickly.
- Fun Test - Definite Pass - Being able to replace a figure with him and then make a sudden, free strike was a lot of fun.
- Fun Competitive Test - Pass - He's manageable.
- Drafting Test - Tentative Pass - I reckon he needs a small points drop, then I'd draft him.
- Usage Test - Pass
- Strategy Test - Pass - Setting up a DCI turn and springing it effectively is relatively strategic.

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Nemesis (Tom Tresser)
Army Test 1
Map: Dry Season by Killometer (no glyphs)
Armies:
Nick Fury, Gorilla-Man, Mockingbird, Nemesis (Tom Tresser), 3x S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, 2x Skrull Infiltrators (1,000 points)
vs.
Nightwing, Starfire, Tempest, Raven, Changeling (1,000 points)


Spoiler Alert!


Army Test 2

Map: Infected Glade by Panopticon (no glyphs)
Armies;
Amanda Waller, Rick Flag Jr., Nemesis (Tom Tresser), Bane, Shocker, Vulture, Weather Wizard, 2x S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents (1,200 Points)
vs.
Doctor Octopus, Rhino, Whirlwind, Mother Russia, 3x LexCorp Security (1,195 Points)
Spoiler Alert!


Final Thoughts On The Tested Unit:

Nemesis is interesting... he requires a lot of set-up, but he can be a really solid surprise attack if you set him up right, and a really scary one considering how easy it can be to stack attack boosts (BtS+height+Bane was an extreme example, but not too far off the bell-curve in a Task Force X build). That he can easily and immediately be deployed to a good position in a completely free turn is pretty great.
However, he requires quite a bit of set-up -for this to be worthwhile, you'll want to load up on Scale Markers, whic generally means taking a large number of expendable squaddies and encouraging your enemy to kill them. If your opponent also has expendable squaddies you have to claw through, this guy is effectively castrated, so he needs to have the right build, the right opponent and the right situation to be effective. Not only that, but at 4 Life 3 Defence, he's pathetically easy to kill, and a glass cannon, through and through.
Nemesis does do particularly well versus armies with strong squad figures, since they're not the sorts of expendable squaddies that easily neuter Balance the Scales and when he comes in he can use Deep Cover Infiltration to auto-kill one of them without even a roll, Grimnak-style. However, it's once per game, not too insane and not a factor against most popular builds (pretty much just LexCorp and, to a lesser degree, Thanagarians... maybe Skrull or Kree? Perhaps Arthrians as well, but that's still not a lot). Therefore, I don't feel this should be a factor in his cost. Given he requires so much set-up and dies so easily, 140 is feeling a bit on the high-side to me - I'd drop him to 120 or 130. At that, though, I think he's great!



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  #54  
Old July 9th, 2018, 10:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Nemesis(Tom Tresser)

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Nemesis(Tom)(140), Amanda Waller(195), Rick Flag Jr.(105), S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents x 2(220), Bane(190), Deadshot(150) (1000)
vs.
Fantastic Four(1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Custom
Units:
Nemesis(Tom)(140), Bane(190), Cap(240), Ms. Marvel(350), Civilians x2(90) (1010)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Wolverine(280), Swordsman(160), Firestar(120) (1010)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Nemesis feels super squishy with his 3 defense and 4 life. He was killed immediately following revealing himself in both games, so it was pretty much the surprise turn, then gone. So everything hinges on how well that turn goes for him. The fact that it is a surprise turn, which as the player controlling him you won't always know when to pull that trigger, so I can see him being left vulnerable since he won't have Order Markers on him, and will be reliant on an OM hub to get more turns when it matters. Overall he serves his purpose though, and both his turns were successful in my games, dealing 4 wounds to figures much higher in point value, but I don't see that always being the case. He also needs some boosters or at least height to make the attacks mean something. He's got potential for something decent, but I find the hoops jump through and luck he must rely on keeps his points a gamble, heck, you could run out of commons if you're not careful. So his effectiveness is absolutely build dependent. All that said, I feel a drop to 130 is fair, 120 not unreasonable compared to other figures around that level that can be decent.
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  #55  
Old July 10th, 2018, 10:28 AM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

It sounds like 130 is the safest bet for the time being. It might be useful to see another game or two with the specific focus on using the reveal when it seems safe and see how long he lasts past that. If he’s still getting taken down handily, I can see 120 or 115 happening with confidence.

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  #56  
Old July 11th, 2018, 05:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Thanks for the tests @Arkham

Looks like he's going to be getting a points drop in the future, but there aren't any major issues. One more set of tests should be enough to wrap this puppy up.


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  #57  
Old July 11th, 2018, 05:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Cool. I'll try and hit him this weekend.
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  #58  
Old July 11th, 2018, 06:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Perhaps have the new tests be done with the points drop since both Lazy and I seem to be in agreement on 120-130 being a good place?
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  #59  
Old July 15th, 2018, 05:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Did you still want to see one more set of tests here, Soundwarp? And if so, what do you think for points? 120? 130?
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  #60  
Old July 15th, 2018, 05:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis (Tom Tresser) (Public Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Did you still want to see one more set of tests here, Soundwarp? And if so, what do you think for points? 120? 130?
Yeah, 3 other testers is pretty much a hard minimum for me, so if you can get to him it would be groovy.

Maybe 125? If we also make Nightshade’s cost end in a five that could sort of tie all the squad agents together into their werid little love triangle thing.


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