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  #217  
Old August 20th, 2020, 12:15 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

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Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
Do you remember any more details of my heavies vs trons match against Spider? I donít recall all the details but just remember that it was a death trap for him.

No, just remember it being one of the many reckoning/teaching moments of melee being better than he thought. I find it a little interesting that on this latest cast you guys kind of dismiss Raelin with Heavies, when I'm not sure if Heavies win that 'Tron matchup as easily without her.


I could give him a call see if he remembers .

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Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #218  
Old August 20th, 2020, 12:27 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

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Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
Do you remember any more details of my heavies vs trons match against Spider? I donít recall all the details but just remember that it was a death trap for him.

No, just remember it being one of the many reckoning/teaching moments of melee being better than he thought. I find it a little interesting that on this latest cast you guys kind of dismiss Raelin with Heavies, when I'm not sure if Heavies win that 'Tron matchup as easily without her.


I could give him a call see if he remembers .
Fair enough. Though I do think overall they are better without her but she definitely was key in that match up. Feel free to call him since I forced him into retirement...

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  #219  
Old August 22nd, 2020, 12:58 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Digging up your discussion from back in April, I'll just chime in and say that Raelin and other supporting cast units were almost always taken into account when it came to making the original power rankings.

Joe and I would basically put Raelin in all of our [ranged] armies unless we were running Valiant 4th. We didn't really play Knights that often. I might even argue that the ranking of units like Airborne Elite cared about the fact that Deathreavers or other screening units exist. I think I assumed that Sharks in general would be played alongside rats, optimally. Braxas with no screen is garbage. Or how often would Krav be taken without Raelin? etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)

Last edited by Jexik; August 22nd, 2020 at 01:07 AM. Reason: added the word ranged... oddly we never really used Raelin with Romans.
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  #220  
Old August 22nd, 2020, 02:18 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
Digging up your discussion from back in April, I'll just chime in and say that Raelin and other supporting cast units were almost always taken into account when it came to making the original power rankings.

Joe and I would basically put Raelin in all of our [ranged] armies unless we were running Valiant 4th. We didn't really play Knights that often. I might even argue that the ranking of units like Airborne Elite cared about the fact that Deathreavers or other screening units exist. I think I assumed that Sharks in general would be played alongside rats, optimally. Braxas with no screen is garbage. Or how often would Krav be taken without Raelin? etc.
Thanks for clarifying that! I think Ken would rather rate units in a vacuum, whereas our ratings attempt to look at the broader meta game as a whole. Thatís fine, but I donít think itís enough to just look at the game as a bunch of individual units.
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  #221  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 09:48 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
Digging up your discussion from back in April, I'll just chime in and say that Raelin and other supporting cast units were almost always taken into account when it came to making the original power rankings.

Joe and I would basically put Raelin in all of our [ranged] armies unless we were running Valiant 4th. We didn't really play Knights that often. I might even argue that the ranking of units like Airborne Elite cared about the fact that Deathreavers or other screening units exist. I think I assumed that Sharks in general would be played alongside rats, optimally. Braxas with no screen is garbage. Or how often would Krav be taken without Raelin? etc.
I'd be curious to see a list ranking all common squads where players only have 1x to play with, and who hate proxying. That was me for a number of years, but thankfully due to my job I've been able to splurge a lot more on squads, getting 2-3x of each.

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  #222  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 09:52 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Single common power rankings:

A++
Mezzodemon Warmongers
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  #223  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 10:07 AM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

For 1x commons, basically all bonding mele gets a boost from the presence of their hero (s) and ranged squads (generally, see Vegies Mezzo example) - for example, 1x 4th Mass is terrible.

Also more survivable units like Sentinels get a boost and low defense units are much worse.

Edit: for good uses of 1x & 2x commons, I suggest checking out the pod & toolbox armies that made day 2 of gencon in the past. Some good uses of things like PKs & HSBs.
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  #224  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 11:18 AM
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At The Same Time

1 x 4th isn't that bad. It's 4 attacks at range. 1 x Drones or Goblins or zombies is much worse. Anything that wants to swarm should never be splashed like that. I also think that anything that's high variance will struggle as well. Mezzos might be the best among the splash squads but I think PKs, rats, and HSBs are in contention there. (Including VC, Deathwings, Shieldsmiths, and maybe the Mantises and Civil war squads enter the discussion)

~Dysole, who will rarely play 1 x common but has played 2 x common a lot
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  #225  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 01:27 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
Single common power rankings:

A++
Mezzodemon Warmongers
I agree.
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  #226  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 02:13 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

I was very very close to playing 1x 4th Mass in the Gencon main event in 2015. I think I probably still go 5-0 on day 1 with that (most likely win changing to a loss would actually have been a game against Microcorp Agents), and who knows, maybe I win semis if MBS isn't there to paralyzing stare Kaemon.

It's not exactly good, but if you have them in a situation where they can shoot with impunity, they are better than Marro Warriors in that moment.
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  #227  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 02:18 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

That's a bit outside my experience. I doubt I ever took 1x commons to a tournament. At my very first tournament I pooled resources to get 6x Mass...

All the reverse the whip talk is way over my head. The one time I came in the middle of this (I forget the year), I played Romans with Valguard and thought that was weak enough. I had to use Cleon's Braxas and 2x Rats in the first round, the other army people thought was too strong for RtW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)

Last edited by Jexik; August 23rd, 2020 at 02:47 PM. Reason: looked around, it was 2015
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  #228  
Old August 23rd, 2020, 08:36 PM
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Re: Casters of Valhalla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
That's a bit outside my experience. I doubt I ever took 1x commons to a tournament. At my very first tournament I pooled resources to get 6x Mass...

All the reverse the whip talk is way over my head. The one time I came in the middle of this (I forget the year), I played Romans with Valguard and thought that was weak enough. I had to use Cleon's Braxas and 2x Rats in the first round, the other army people thought was too strong for RtW.
That was actually the same year. Cleon and I were the two 5-0s that year.

EDIT: results
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