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  #1  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 10:14 PM
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Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

Note: This thread was created to prevent hijacking another thread. I performed a search and could not find much.

I think uliginesh will bring more excitement to Ullar, specially if those elf wizards coming with him in wave 8 can do cool stuff, but also by himself. It is clear that his stats. are not final, but will likely be close to the picture.

1. Flying with movement of 7 is simply devastating, not even the dragons get that (it's almost unfair as height advantage is gained easily)
2. Range of 6
3. 3 defense and 5 lives are decent for a mid 100s hero that can fly and have range
4. Possibility of taking turns with up to two elf wizards in one turn (of course those elf wizards are likely to cost less so don't expect extra-extra-supernatural powers from them - it's obvious now why Sonlen is not a wizard - it simply would not be fair to take a turn with Sonlen and somebody else in the same turn as Sonlen is two in one already)

As such, Ulginesh will be sort of like a commander of elf armies, but who wants to play elf armies with 3 or 4 heroes and no risk diversification (depends also on what those other elves can do)? For these two reasons I expect the elf wizards coming in wave 8 to be valued at 100 or less on average. The first reason is none (or not many) of them can be worth more than Ulginesh (150) individually and they have to be priced affordably to allow room for a viable army. It is true that Ornak's Red Flag of Fury allows taking turn with two uniques that follow Utgar that are often worth more than Ornak's 100 but if and only if the first order marker is on Ornak and only in Ornak's first turn. Ulginesh's preliminary card does not have such a restriction although his aura is smaller than Ornak's. The second reason is that as implied by my comment above on Sonlen, taking turns with two heroes worth more than Ulginesh in each turn when applicable would be almost unfair.

Of course, this is total speculation, but more interesting to me than all the recent eternal polling going on.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.

Last edited by Hex_Enduction_Hour; May 4th, 2008 at 09:42 PM.
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  #2  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 10:19 PM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

<laughing happily> I love your final sentence, Hero Hot Hatch. I don't care much for speculation and have never engaged in it here; but I like speculation a whole lot more than bad polling. Thank you (and rep) for not starting a thread with a poll that says:
  • Ulginesh rocks
  • Ulginesh sucks
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Old May 3rd, 2008, 10:25 PM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

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Originally Posted by Revdyer View Post
a poll that says:
  • Ulginesh rocks
  • Ulginesh sucks
First one! How do I vote?!?

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Old May 3rd, 2008, 10:53 PM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Hot Hatch View Post
As such, Ulginesh will be sort of like a commander of elf armies, but who wants to play elf armies with 3 or 4 heroes and no risk diversification (depends also on what those other elves can do)? For these two reasons I expect the elf wizards coming in wave 8 to be valued at 100 or less on average. The first reason is none (or not many) of them can be worth more than Ulginesh (150) individually and they have to be priced affordably to allow room for a viable army. It is true that Ornak's Red Flag of Fury allows taking turn with two uniques that follow Utgar that are often worth more than Ornak's 100 but if and only if the first order marker is on Ornak and only in Ornak's first turn. Ulginesh's preliminary card does not have such a restriction although his aura is smaller than Ornak's. The second reason is that as implied by my comment above on Sonlen, taking turns with two heroes worth more than Ulginesh in each turn when applicable would be almost unfair.
I dunno. I could see the elf heroes costing more than Ulginesh costing. I think that would be part of the risk/reward for choosing Ulginesh in the first place. You've got a pretty solid hero that lets you take two turns with elven wizards. I could see them costing 100 points each. Yeah, it doesn't leave you much to work with as this would already be 350 points, but that could very well be part of that risk/reward thing.

And to quote you again: Of course this is total speculation, but more interesting to me than all the recent eternal polling going on.

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Old May 3rd, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

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Originally Posted by Hero Hot Hatch View Post
It is clear that his stats. are not final, but will likely be close to the picture.
Why is it clear that his stats are not final? There's the card as shown at Gen Con, why would it change?

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  #6  
Old May 4th, 2008, 12:21 AM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

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Originally Posted by nyys View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Hot Hatch View Post
It is clear that his stats. are not final, but will likely be close to the picture.
Why is it clear that his stats are not final? There's the card as shown at Gen Con, why would it change?
Because the Wave 8 ad copy does not line up very well with the powers on the Ulginesh preview card. It is possible that the old preview card is unchanged and the new text is wrong, but no more than a possibility.

As far as Ulginesh as previewed is concerned... I want to like him. He's flying range, for Pete's sake! But if he comes out as seen at the convention, he'll be totally dependent on new elf wizards to make him worthwhile. Ulginesh added to the current elf wizards looks awful. An order markers on Ulgy can give you his own ranged normal attack of 4 (granted, often 5 because he flies). Or you could activate Acolarh and Morsbane, giving two normal melee attacks of 3 (in this case often just 3; they're slow walkers) and a negation roll. That's it. That's the best offense an Ulginesh bonding group can produce using the elf wizards we have now. He desperately needs elf wizards who hit hard.

Of course, it's possible, even likely, that the card has been rewritten and this is all obsolete.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:48 AM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

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Originally Posted by rdhight View Post
He desperately needs elf wizards who hit hard.

Of course, it's possible, even likely, that the card has been rewritten and this is all obsolete.
Its also possible, and even likely, that at least a couple of the elves we're getting with wave 8 are wizards who fight for Ullar and hit hard enough to make Ulginesh absolutely dangerous.

I do sort of hope the card has been altered just a little, as I shy away from units for whom the best strategy is never to use them ( Kato). I would love it if they made his one ability less potent, gave you a turn with one other elf wizard, and gave Ulgy another ability as well, like an aura for elf wizards, or even a special attack.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:01 AM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

I seem to remember many people decrying that having a ranged character with flight would break the game. I don't subscribe to this notion, but it will be interesting to see if they're correct when Ulginesh is let loose upon our hexes.

Personally, I'm looking forward to him.

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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:14 AM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiteofthedice View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdhight View Post
He desperately needs elf wizards who hit hard.

Of course, it's possible, even likely, that the card has been rewritten and this is all obsolete.
Its also possible, and even likely, that at least a couple of the elves we're getting with wave 8 are wizards who fight for Ullar and hit hard enough to make Ulginesh absolutely dangerous.
Hey, I won't be sorry if that's true. Like I said, I want to like him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eckels View Post
I seem to remember many people decrying that having a ranged character with flight would break the game. I don't subscribe to this notion, but it will be interesting to see if they're correct when Ulginesh is let loose upon our hexes.
What do you call Mimring, Braxas, Nilfheim, new Drake, and half of Marvel if not flying range? None of those figures broke the game, and I'll be very surprised if Ulginesh does. Okay, maybe he'll break it by an endless loop, but not by being flying range.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:20 AM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiteofthedice View Post
I do sort of hope the card has been altered just a little, as I shy away from units for whom the best strategy is never to use them ( Kato). I would love it if they made his one ability less potent, gave you a turn with one other elf wizard, and gave Ulgy another ability as well, like an aura for elf wizards, or even a special attack.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of these lazy general figures (an unfair characterization, but I'll use it anyway ...). But, you pay a premium to use them and they (and their builds) are so expected that any good Scaper should be ready to face them. I don't really like them, but I take solace in them costing a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eckels View Post
I seem to remember many people decrying that having a ranged character with flight would break the game. I don't subscribe to this notion, but it will be interesting to see if they're correct when Ulginesh is let loose upon our hexes.

Personally, I'm looking forward to him.
I'm looking forward to him as well. I always wondered about the doom and gloom of ranged flying units. Mimring was a ranged flying figure in the very first master's set (yes, I know the argument of special vs. normal attack, but I think that is fairly thin)--as have been most of the dragons since.

I'm excited to see Ullar reborn (he's needed it!) when they get their flying, ranged Kyrie! In fact, I think I'll be calling the next several months Ullar Reborn, in hopes that Wave 8 will be followed by Wave 9's Ullar Protectors.

EDIT: Got interrupted in a post and rdhight swooped me. Good points, all, rdhight.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:23 AM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Hot Hatch View Post
It is clear that his stats. are not final, but will likely be close to the picture.
Why is it clear that his stats are not final? There's the card as shown at Gen Con, why would it change?
I should rephrase this. We simply are not sure if his card has changed since Gen Con or not. The designers/play testers might have continued to work on it afterwards.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 03:05 PM
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Re: Ulginesh - A preliminary discussion

Got it, and rdhight pointed out the there was an 'official' description that didn't jibe with the card as well, so maybe...

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