Mister Fantastic (Reed Richards)

[Ericth74]

B for me. But like Bats said, things like Jugs get tricky.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Hmm, I'm leaning towards B if we can get the addition of Large, but that does move us into "how to handle Juggernaut" territory.

I really liked Ronin’s model of making it a more active thing.

I guess overall I feel a little confused, since it seems like we had a working model that most people in the conversation were happy with, and now we’re back to square one a little bit?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I really liked Ronin’s model of making it a more active thing.

I guess overall I feel a little confused, since it seems like we had a working model that most people in the conversation were happy with, and now we’re back to square one a little bit?

I don't think Yodaking felt like his questions in the thread were resolved, which is what this is a response to.

Did we have actual verbiage worked out for this ability that would work for the making it an active thing? Or do you mean on Juggy's end?

[japes]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I guess overall I feel a little confused, since it seems like we had a working model that most people in the conversation were happy with, and now we’re back to square one a little bit?

obviously I wasn't confident that everyone had given their opinions and we weren't overlooking someone or I wouldn't have started the poll. This one felt significant enough that I wasn't going to move it forward until I was confident we had responded to everyone's concerns. The F4 have always lived on Reed wrapping things up to protect Sue so this wasn't just a minor tweak to him but a tweak to the way the faction plays.

I think the results so far lean to the exact opposite of what I thought folks were arguing for so that feels like justification to me for starting this. I was under the impression from previous discussions that mostly people wanted him to stay the same and stop everything with the theme justification being "reed good at science...discovered cool way to stop thing". However it looks like more people did NOT want that.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Did we have actual verbiage worked out for this ability that would work for the making it an active thing? Or do you mean on Juggy's end?

I tried here, not saying it’s perfect:

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I really like the "you may stop the movement" wording and I think it offers us a ton of options.
---
So we can write powers like this:

I'm sure my wording's not 100% there, but my point is that you can word things in different ways to provide different styles of effects.
---
Then there's 2 different ways to get around this effect. You can make the movement "unstoppable" like so:

Or, if you really want to foolproof it, you can remove the figure from the battlefield and place it somewhere else.

I think my main concern is with inherently decoupling placement from move actions. Never letting placement be a move action (and therefore never a special move, I’m guessing?) still seems like a pretty heavy weight to put on ourselves this early on, and the upside seems to be the fun yet minor thematic wrinkle of letting Nightcrawler get away from Mister Fantastic.

I also think we’re making this assumption an place = teleport when there’s plenty of placement powers that represent other stuff, like Spidey’s Web Slinger or Magneto’s toss. I think there’s an assumption that we’re just gonna transition some of that stuff to being movements, but I don’t think we’ve created a convincing model for what that looks like yet.

Idk, I’m sorry if I’m throwing a wrench in the vote, I just really felt like that model was the closest we’ve gotten yet.

[IAmBatman]

I think this one's the ticket:

RUBBER WRAP
When a small, medium, or large enemy figure adjacent to Mister Fantastic would use a move action, you may stop its movement.

We could tweak the definitions of special move/maneuver to allow for placement type abilities in there, but I'm honestly not sure what that looks like.

Another benefit of the current system is that place abilities inherently have disengage in them.

[japes]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Idk, I’m sorry if I’m throwing a wrench in the vote, I just really felt like that model was the closest we’ve gotten yet.

Don't be sorry. I just want to make sure what we do is the best we could do. If that means we take more time here that's fine by me.

[IAmBatman]

Do we want to say "does not take swipes" in his special move or do we want to say he gains Flying and Stealth?

[japes]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I think this one's the ticket:

RUBBER WRAP
When a small, medium, or large enemy figure adjacent to Mister Fantastic would use a move action, you may stop its movement.

We could tweak the definitions of special move/maneuver to allow for placement type abilities in there, but I'm honestly not sure what that looks like.

Another benefit of the current system is that place abilities inherently have disengage in them.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Do we want to say "does not take swipes" in his special move or do we want to say he gains Flying and Stealth?

Anyone have comments here?

[MrNobody]

Unsure where we're at. Bats and I had a big Discord convo and updated some rules language based on that, but not sure how people want that to change things.

Personally what you posted is not my favorite system for making things work, but I also don't want us to keep going in circles forever.

[japes]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Unsure where we're at. Bats and I had a big Discord convo and updated some rules language based on that, but not sure how people want that to change things.

Personally what you posted is not my favorite system for making things work, but I also don't want us to keep going in circles forever.

I know. I'm the LD here but honestly I'm kind of lost as I thought it felt like we were going in circles and somewhere I got spun out of the merry-go-round and I'm still finding my balance.

I'm just trying to get this going somewhere. I'm ready to be done with the F4

[IAmBatman]

Per that conversation, place abilities and move actions are staying separate.

The poll here supported him just stopping move actions, right? If do, I still believe that wording I posted does the trick.

I think we have a few special moves written up now that have the flying and stealth asthetic.