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  #469  
Old June 4th, 2020, 02:24 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
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Originally Posted by dok View Post
I'm unclear here; are you insisting it be a D&D style green wyrmling model, or would you accept a different green wyrmling mini so long as it wasn't actually a D&D copper wyrmling mini or the like?
I am ok a D&D green dragon wyrmling, and I am ok with a non-D&D green wyrmling that is not a non-green D&D dragon miniature. For the former, I would be fine as long as the design was based on a D&D green dragon. For the latter, I don't really mind what direction the design takes, as long as it feels like it fits with the other wrymlings. As for re-theming a different type of D&D wyrmling, if there is, for example, a good D&D copper wyrmling miniature, why not make a Copper Wyrmling?
Because, by and large, Heroscape players care about Heroscape lore and the mechanical universe Heroscape has built up, not D&D. There's a long-standing desire for a green wyrmling not because it's the missing D&D chromatic dragon wyrm, but because we got a mini-Zelrig, mini-Braxas, and mini-Nilfheim, but no mini-Charos.

Another good "why" is a point you already raised - a mini-Charos would be far more distinct from a gameplay perspective, even if it kept with the basic Heroscape wyrmling tropes (common hero, flying, wyrmling bonding).
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  #470  
Old June 5th, 2020, 05:30 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
Because, by and large, Heroscape players care about Heroscape lore and the mechanical universe Heroscape has built up, not D&D. There's a long-standing desire for a green wyrmling not because it's the missing D&D chromatic dragon wyrm, but because we got a mini-Zelrig, mini-Braxas, and mini-Nilfheim, but no mini-Charos.

Another good "why" is a point you already raised - a mini-Charos would be far more distinct from a gameplay perspective, even if it kept with the basic Heroscape wyrmling tropes (common hero, flying, wyrmling bonding).


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  #471  
Old June 6th, 2020, 01:22 AM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

FWIW, I think that Charos' 9 Life is just as defining (if not moreso) to him as Counterstrike is. It would almost feel weird for a mini-Charos to not have more life than than the other Wyrmlings, and a cheap Uncommon Hero could still maintain the spirit of the Wyrmlings.

That said, I'm sure that everyone would draw the line at different places, which makes filling out a gap of the canon like this particularly difficult.
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  #472  
Old June 6th, 2020, 11:47 AM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

I mean, Braxas' 8 life is also pretty iconic and the black wyrmling is still a common hero because it makes more sense for play-ability purposes. I think thematic fit with the other wyrmlings is the most important aspect to be considered. The way the other wyrmlings 'mimic' their hero is having a scaled-down version of their attack; for Charos, that means high defense + counter strike.

For what it's worth, I don't think the 4th / Green Wyrm / Raelin army is as strong as it's being made out to be here. If I was running a 4th build, Raelin isn't my top option and taking OMs where I can only get 2 mele attacks instead of 4 ranged attacks (2x4 instead of 4x3) isn't a great turn except in special cases. I certainly wouldn't worry about this being game-breaking (I don't even think it changes the best 4th armies at various point totals). The green wyrms also don't form nearly as good of a screen as 2xKnights would.

One big thing about wyrmling builds is their ability to include one or two of each of the good wyrms. So, having 1-2 red and 2-4 black wyrmlings helps smooth out your matchups tremendously. You can't do that with the 4th build, which makes the green wyrms a lot worse in that army. Also, when moving & using the green wyrms you would probably want some ranged wyrmlings to go with them so you can still get attacks in while getting board positioning.

One thought on the card as proposed by dok:
It does more than cut the counterstrike chances in half - it also reduces the max damage. I like the idea of having to roll dice to get the wounds, but I think you should be able to roll a number of dice equal to the excess shields; for the other wyrmlings, they have the ability to wound heroes for multiple wounds (albeit unlikely) for all of their 'iconic' attacks and I feel like green wyrms should too. It's not like 4 defense is going to result in a massive number of excess shields anyways.
Otherwise I like that card quite a lot.
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  #473  
Old June 6th, 2020, 03:06 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Although I would prefer an uncommon hero with multi-life, another idea is just make Green Wyrmling not be valiant so not overpowered with 4th. Just picture babies are not valiant to start. Then regular counterstroke, keep bonding, and 4/4 as a 1 life common might be fine. I would say even this is only worth 30 not 35 points in a tournament setting, as other Wyrmlings all have range and multiple attacks or autokills so would be better than GW at 35 IMHO, except when drafting against melee only builds - so maybe keep 35 just for them.
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  #474  
Old June 6th, 2020, 04:02 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Do all wyrmlings have the same personality as "their" older dragon?

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  #475  
Old June 6th, 2020, 05:45 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Do all wyrmlings have the same personality as "their" older dragon?
Yes.

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  #476  
Old June 7th, 2020, 12:52 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Perkins View Post
One thought on the card as proposed by dok:
It does more than cut the counterstrike chances in half - it also reduces the max damage. I like the idea of having to roll dice to get the wounds, but I think you should be able to roll a number of dice equal to the excess shields; for the other wyrmlings, they have the ability to wound heroes for multiple wounds (albeit unlikely) for all of their 'iconic' attacks and I feel like green wyrms should too. It's not like 4 defense is going to result in a massive number of excess shields anyways.
That's a pretty cool solution, too.


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  #477  
Old June 7th, 2020, 01:10 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

I agree, I like that quite a bit.

Just putting that together:
LIFE = 1
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4
POINTS = 35

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE

For each excess shield a Green Wyrmling rolls when defending against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure.

WYRMLING BONDING

FLYING
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  #478  
Old June 7th, 2020, 03:59 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

That looks really good.
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  #479  
Old June 7th, 2020, 05:46 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Love it. Now where's our mini?

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  #480  
Old June 7th, 2020, 06:13 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

The mini used way back when was the Bronze Wyrmling #01 from the D&D Giants of Legend set. I count 44 of them between eBay (19), Miniature Market (22), and gamehollow (2). Now that's obviously a really low number for an SoV unit but I would assume a lot of people have at least a couple of them already (heck, I saw at least one post in this thread where someone had an order placed for them!). There's also a related conversation going on right now in the SoV thread.

EDIT: Found 1 on paizo as well and 2 promo editions from Coolstuffinc ($30 each, though).
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