The Book of Penguin (II)

[Yodaking]

I don't know if he needs to have an OM, he is a Crime Lord so he would if he was the only Crime Lord currently in your army but when playing with multiple Crime Lords then you may not want to have an OM on him every round. If you were to go with what you just posted though, I'd make it +2 for every OM on a Crime Lord or Masterminds card, up to a maximum of +4.

[Lazy Orang]

I believe the requirement of him having at least one OM is to represent his ego. Honestly, I like Arkham's last version, though I could see making it +2 for each OM to a maximum of +4, if we wanted Street Thugs to be viable. Though that starts my Joker paranoia up again.

[Arkham]

Oswald and the Joker have a bit of a friendship, at least in certain stories over the years, so if it's ever warranted to have that combo actually be encouraged, this would be the time. Though, I'm not saying we should, just that it would at least be fitting in this instance.

[Arkham]

Alright, here's another pass at it:

GREASED PALMS
Start the game with 3 black Bribe Markers on this card. When a Crime Lord or Mastermind you control is targeted for an attack, if the attacking figure is not a Vigilante, before any attack dice are rolled you may remove a Bribe Marker from this card. If you do, the attacking figure's turn immediately ends.

CRIME LORD COLLUSION
When rolling for initiative, add 2 to your roll for each Order Marker on a Crime Lord card or Mastermind card you control, to a maximum of +4. If there are no Order Markers on this card, subtract 6 from your roll.

CRIMINAL SYNDICATE
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. After moving figures with Criminal Syndicate, you may immediately choose one figure that is engaged with a moved Unique Criminal or Unique Thief and roll 1 unblockable attack die against the chosen figure. Figures moved by Criminal Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

This addresses Crime Lord Collusion's initiative boost allowing a bit more leeway with the Order Markers. In a Penguin only led army, he can obtain a +4 if he has 2 OMs, or a +2 even if you just have 1 on him. In a Crime Lord/Mastermind led army, you can spread your OMs across them and still obtain the bonus. However, you will subtract 6 if at least 1 of the OMs is not on Penguin. As is written, you will add then subtract. This may seem odd, but it's common in heroscape to add and subtract bonuses in the same vein, so I feel it's reasonable. So if all your OMs are on Crime Lords and Masterminds, but none on Penguin, perhaps Penguin is more forgiving to take a bit of a backseat compared to taking a backseat to the lower level criminals etc. so you still get the + but then take the -, evening out to a possible -2 or -4. This represents the various levels of Greed and temperment on how well he's willing to work with whom.

The Crime syndicate name is changed to Criminal Syndicate to keep that name open for a potential future synergy.

Criminal syndicate has been updated to only allow the unblockable if the moved figure doing the unblockable is Unique.

Thoughts?

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

First and foremost, this design needs to be able to play well both independently and dependently. I don't want to design a 2nd version of Penguin if it's just usable in 1 scenario(drafting many Crime Lords, Criminals, and some Insane). That's pigeonholing him too much, IMO. He needs a degree of versatility to where he plays well in his own army, while also being easily tied into an overall bigger army with other Crime Lords etc.

Secondly, this version still caters to playing him with other Gothamites. Keep in mind, we're still tweaking things to make sure it works, but that goal has not been lost. You can still draft Penguin with Two-Face II and the planned Black Mask II, and you'll have access to nearly every Batman rogues gallery member, all synergized and playing well together. That has not changed.

Agreed...very much. Pigeon-holed cards seem to get stale fast. I like the most recent Crime Lord Collusion power but still not completely sold on the unblockable wound power.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I believe the requirement of him having at least one OM is to represent his ego. Honestly, I like Arkham's last version

That was my thought as well and gets the theme of Self-Importance without the negative experience of Self-Importance.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Alright, here's another pass at it:

This addresses Crime Lord Collusion's initiative boost allowing a bit more leeway with the Order Markers. In a Penguin only led army, he can obtain a +4 if he has 2 OMs, or a +2 even if you just have 1 on him. In a Crime Lord/Mastermind led army, you can spread your OMs across them and still obtain the bonus. However, you will subtract 6 if at least 1 of the OMs is not on Penguin. As is written, you will add then subtract. This may seem odd, but it's common in heroscape to add and subtract bonuses in the same vein, so I feel it's reasonable. So if all your OMs are on Crime Lords and Masterminds, but none on Penguin, perhaps Penguin is more forgiving to take a bit of a backseat compared to taking a backseat to the lower level criminals etc. so you still get the + but then take the -, evening out to a possible -2 or -4. This represents the various levels of Greed and temperment on how well he's willing to work with whom.

The Crime syndicate name is changed to Criminal Syndicate to keep that name open for a potential future synergy.

Criminal syndicate has been updated to only allow the unblockable if the moved figure doing the unblockable is Unique.

Thoughts?

I was going to comment on the wording for CLC but then I realized it was intentional and your reasoning makes sense so ... cool.

I guess my issue with the unblockable is that thematically I'm not seeing penguin as a guy that could help his underlings find the ability for a 50% chance of an autowound. I just need to find justification in my own head to let it go.

whereas the OM shuffle and movement seem very Penguiny. I guess I just liked what you had a lot.

[Tornado]

But he is giving up a turn to do it.
Maybe the movement alone will be enough but you are giving up a full turn's worth of attacks to do so.

The part that stands out to me is the Vigilante immunity to GP. I assume that is because of Batman? I would rather just call Batman out specifically or drop it all together.
If any character is above a bribe, it is Judge Dredd, I would put Lawmen right behind him.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Tornado

But he is giving up a turn to do it.
Maybe the movement alone will be enough but you are giving up a full turn's worth of attacks to do so.

Then work it so he's not giving up a turn.

At the beginning of your turn, if there is at least one Order Marker on this card, you may move any unrevealed Order Markers on any Criminal or Crime Lord cards in your army to any other Criminal cards you control. You may move Order Markers from Army Cards of your destroyed figures. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. Figures moved by Criminal Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Then it's like he's facilitating the orders from Crime Lords to other Criminals...

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

Then work it so he's not giving up a turn.

At the beginning of your turn, if there is at least one Order Marker on this card, you may move any unrevealed Order Markers on any Criminal or Crime Lord cards in your army to any other Criminal cards you control. You may move Order Markers from Army Cards of your destroyed figures. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Penguin, you may immediately move up to 4 Criminal or Thief figures you control up to 4 spaces each. Figures moved by Criminal Syndicate do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Then it's like he's facilitating the orders from Crime Lords to other Criminals...

You still run into the same issue though. While the OM rearrangement is better in this version, actually putting an OM on Penguin is still a bit underwhelming. Because when you go to take that turn, if you give up Penguin's turn you're just moving figures. I suppose if you just put the X on him each round, and only put a numbered OM on him if figures need to be moved early on...but it still feels a bit underwhelming to ever use a numbered OM on him.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

You still run into the same issue though. While the OM rearrangement is better in this version, actually putting an OM on Penguin is still a bit underwhelming. Because when you go to take that turn, if you give up Penguin's turn you're just moving figures. I suppose if you just put the X on him each round, and only put a numbered OM on him if figures need to be moved early on...but it still feels a bit underwhelming to ever use a numbered OM on him.

OK so we need something to make him worth putting a marker on besides the Initiative boost.

Would making it more like the instead of moving....move 4 criminals 4 spaces and then he's still get to attack with the Hired Guns. If there was ever a figure that deserved to have someone else pulling the trigger it would be him.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Tornado

But he is giving up a turn to do it.
Maybe the movement alone will be enough but you are giving up a full turn's worth of attacks to do so.

The part that stands out to me is the Vigilante immunity to GP. I assume that is because of Batman? I would rather just call Batman out specifically or drop it all together.
If any character is above a bribe, it is Judge Dredd, I would put Lawmen right behind him.

I don't see Gordon taking a bribe or succumbing to blackmail either so perhaps just expand it to Vigilante or Lawman unique heroes? I suppose Judge Dredd is a Judge though isn't he so you would also need to include Judges. Then an argument could be made that someone like Superman also shouldn't be influenced. Maybe just drop the immunity all together since he can only use it 3 times in total anyway? Perhaps the bribe marker shouldn't be thought of as a direct bribe to the one hero but Penguin using his money to influence others and manipulate events. So Batman isn't taking a bribe but rather Penguin is exerting influence through other means that lead to a domino effect that gets Batman to pull his punches. Maybe Penguin has Vicky Vale tied up somewhere and uses her to get to Batman, and that cost money.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I don't see Gordon taking a bribe or succumbing to blackmail either so perhaps just expand it to Vigilante or Lawman unique heroes? I suppose Judge Dredd is a Judge though isn't he so you would also need to include Judges. Then an argument could be made that someone like Superman also shouldn't be influenced. Maybe just drop the immunity all together since he can only use it 3 times in total anyway? Perhaps the bribe marker shouldn't be thought of as a direct bribe to the one hero but Penguin using his money to influence others and manipulate events. So Batman isn't taking a bribe but rather Penguin is exerting influence through other means that lead to a domino effect that gets Batman to pull his punches. Maybe Penguin has Vicky Vale tied up somewhere and uses her to get to Batman, and that cost money.

I'd buy that argument. Just change the name of the Markers.