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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #85  
Old June 12th, 2017, 07:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Individually the powers all seem like potentially good fits, but once combined I'm not so sure they will play all that well together. You place all your OM's on Penguin to get the +4 to your initiative bonus (when he is the only Crime Lord/Mastermind you have left in play), then when you win initiative you end up giving up your attack to move some figures and put the OM on the cards you really wanted them on. I favor the concepts seen in the first two powers, with the 3rd power being the one I would reconsider.
Hmmm. I'm interested in hearing what options/suggestions can be thought up. Personally, I think as-is you're getting a nice swarming strategy. You can really force some figures to take LEA just to get to Penguin. Additionally, it's useful for moving figures out in the first couple of turns. You'd be getting 4 figures 8 spaces each, or 8 figures 4 spaces each, in just 2 turns. I feel that's pretty useful. Keep in mind Penguin is slated to be a relatively low costed figure, with 140-150 being the sweet spot IMO. So with his powers as-is, I'd say he's pretty much in that zone.

Keep in mind, this Penguin for all intents and purposes is encouraged to play with other Crime Lords and Masterminds, who are the turn takers and more attack oriented. So Penguin fills that gap so to speak, with the more support driven approach.

One thing for us to consider. Is it worth considering changing Greased Palms to aid Crime Lords/Masterminds instead of Criminals/Thieves? If this is a design centered around bringing a collusion between Crime Lords and Masterminds to run the army together, wouldn't it be potentially more beneficial to the player to keep the leaders and hubs alive a bit longer, letting the heat fall more on the Criminals and Thieves?
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  #86  
Old June 12th, 2017, 08:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

Just theoryscaping, which doesn't always pan out.

Protecting the Masterminds and Crime Lords instead of their underlings makes sense to me. Then maybe we can still find a way to have the Criminals and Thieves give him new markers.
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  #87  
Old June 12th, 2017, 08:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Just theoryscaping, which doesn't always pan out.

Protecting the Masterminds and Crime Lords instead of their underlings makes sense to me. Then maybe we can still find a way to have the Criminals and Thieves give him new markers.
I like that thought. Uses the markers on the Crime Lords/Masterminds, but a Criminal or Thief is needed to gain markers back. Could be fun and thematic.
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  #88  
Old June 12th, 2017, 09:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

I caution making him too dependent on having other Crimelords. I like that now he can be the only Crimelord and still be useful and fun AND ALSO be used with other Crimelords and be useful and fun. I wouldn't want to push him to far that he's only useful in one or the other.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #89  
Old June 12th, 2017, 10:22 PM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

I can see the concern. However, Penguin being a Crime Lord himself will always allow the power to be used.

I am liking the idea of somehow gaining the markers back by using your Criminals and Thieves. If we can come up with a simple balanced mechanic for it that's not text heavy, I'd like to see it.
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  #90  
Old June 12th, 2017, 11:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

How about something like this?

GREASED PALMS
Start the game with one black Bribe Marker on this card. When a Crime Lord or Mastermind you control is targeted for an attack by a figure without the Valiant, Driven, or Obsessive personality, you may remove the Bribe Marker from this card to ignore that attack. At the end of each round, if there is not a Bribe Marker on this card and a Criminal or Thief you control inflicted 1 or more wounds this round, you may place the Bribe Marker back on this card.
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  #91  
Old June 13th, 2017, 12:04 AM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
I can see the concern. However, Penguin being a Crime Lord himself will always allow the power to be used.

I am liking the idea of somehow gaining the markers back by using your Criminals and Thieves. If we can come up with a simple balanced mechanic for it that's not text heavy, I'd like to see it.
I was basing my comment more on YK's idea of him protecting Crime Lords but I see in his most recent comment he doesn't limit it to other Crime Lords so he can use it on himself. Therefore my concern is null and void.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #92  
Old June 13th, 2017, 12:07 AM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

I can dig that. It's as if you are paying people off to get them not to attack you and your other Crime Lords etc. In order to keep being able to pay people, you need your Criminals and Thieves to keep stealing and intimidating etc. Gets the theme across IMO. Means without his Criminals/Thieves, Penguin becomes a much more vulnerable target. Without the Penguin being able to bribe, him and his fellow Crime Lords lose a bit of their shady advantage. Pretty neat.
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  #93  
Old June 13th, 2017, 12:07 AM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

I'm not sure her really needs a recharge mechanic. Three shots at ignoring an attack with no penalty seems pretty good for a sub 200 point figure.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #94  
Old June 13th, 2017, 12:08 AM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

I'm fine with or without. Either way works theme wise for me. So I'll leave it up to overall preference from those weighing in.
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  #95  
Old June 13th, 2017, 07:21 AM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

What about a more minor, less common, more evocative, situational recharge, working on the idea Yodaking was talking about with him being ''the middle man of a transaction taking place between a thief or criminal and a crimelord or mastermind''?

Crime Lord Collusion

When rolling for initiative, if all your Order Markers are placed on Crime Lord and Mastermind cards, add 4 to your roll, or instead subtract 4 from your roll if Penguin is in play and there are no Order Markers on this card. If you win initiative, you may place any Equipment Glyph that is on the Army Card of any Criminal or Thief you control on the Army Card of any friendly Crime Lord or Mastermind. If you do so, place one Bribe Marker on this card.

Also, I have to say, I really miss Last Number in the Rolodex. It tied the Gothamites together more and got his single-minded vindictive streak across brilliantly.


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  #96  
Old June 13th, 2017, 08:47 AM
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Re: The Book of Penguin (II) (Initial Playtest)

I understand the desire to include the Insane figures here. That was my original intent. But through testing it just seemed to pull him into wanting/needing too many types of figures. On paper I liked the idea more than I liked it in execution.

At the end of the day, he's still pulling in a ton of the Batman rogues gallery with Crime Lords, Masterminds, Criminals, and Thieves. It's also important to emphasize that Penguin will work really well with other Crime Lords and Masterminds. Which those Crime Lords and Masterminds can offer Penguin benefits directly, as well as further benefiting Criminals and the like. If Black Mask II brings in Insane figures along with further Criminal benefits, you're still getting that Gotham rogues synergy. So I don't see it as much of a sticking point. You could draft the 2 together very naturally, and now you have all your bases covered. Throw in the likes of Two-Face II, Hush, and/or Ra's and you've got even more interweaving synergy. So with that, it allows Penguin II to have more focus on what he's doing, and doing it even better.
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